Rafale DH/EH of Indian Air Force : News and Discussions

The report slightly exaggerates the potential numbers required by 2030. But there's quite a bit of truth in it.

Russia's air defenses work and they are still building in very large numbers, whereas France has no real answer in this arena. And the Russians are going to buy 400-500 fighters by the end of the decade versus something like 50 for France, although the saving grace here is many of the older Rafales can be upgraded to F4 by 2030 as well.
russian air defense was and is not so impressive in ukraine war.
France will never fight alone against russia, so not convenient to compare the two arsenals. But once again, russian fighters were not brillant, and that's why they don't clinch new export order.
SEAD/DEAD is a french lack. We are waiting a proper answer. It is on the agenda.
 
As @Rajput Lion said, no nukes for BrahMos
That makes sense. I was wondering if the 40 MKIs that went through airframe mods (strengthened wings, undercarriage, etc) were n-capable (ruggedized avionics, etc. )

Apparently, the mods have made them too heavy to be used for regular missions. The MKI fits the bill for the nuke role as it is a two-seater and we have a 'deep license' from the Russians.
 
Wouldn't that be the case either way? Even if Rafale F4/F5 wins MRFA, the current F3R/ISE config would still be more proven & more reliable.

The issue being integration. We don't control the integration process for the F3R, but MRFA will provide that. Or we have to go to the French in case the MRFA victor is something else, which means taking the nuke to France, unlike what could be done with M2000. And we had the ability to integrate a lot of new tech on the M2000 as well. tech recieved during the Kargil War.

SFC's hardware isn't just the bomb itself or is plug and play, it requires quite a bit of integration. They even have their own podded systems that are not exposed to enemy observation versus conventional systems. Given that, if it's not MRFA, it's going to be an indigenous jet like LCA Mk2.

?

N-delivery is a SFC mission. IAF is just required to provide the assets & the pilots. Just like IN's SSBNs for deterrence patrol missions.

As per the IAF, they do not want SFC to have dedicated jets for nukes. IAF plans to make operational jets available as and when required. So the Rafales that were bought is for the exclusive operational use of the IAF, not the SFC.

For example the F-22 could always carry the B-61 internally, but never received the nuke certification. It's the same rule for the Rafale F3R. Can but won't. AMCA is likely to get the same treatment. Basically the IAF, even USAF, do not want other organizations poking their noses in their most important business. It leads to unnecessary bureaucratic complications and affects operational preparedness. So neither air force will allow their best jet to be used for alternative purposes.

For now, and at least for another decade, the main nuke platforms will remain Jag and M2000. By 2035-40, LCA Mk2 could take over. And once AMCAs are in enough numbers, MRFA Rafales could add to it.

LCA Mk2 integration will be the fastest 'cause we control all the necessary tech, whereas we have to wait for MRFA Rafale's ToT to trickle in before it begins. Even if they begin the integration process 2 or 3 years after induction begins, it will take 5+ years to actually finish it, so the IAF will have enough jets for both.

There's also a possibility MRFA will never get nuke certification. And it's possible that a TEDBF squadron could be dedicated to the SFC instead, which would fully separate our conventional systems from strategic systems on land.

Standoff range will be an asset, but at what range it's actually employed depends on various factors. Either way, EMP hardening is a must, just in case.

You still need the aircraft to have a high enough degree of operational reliability. Basically, you need to figure out all the niggles it has.

Let's worry about it when they decide to make one. For now, all of our indigenous high-speed missiles are for conventional roles.
 
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russian air defense was and is not so impressive in ukraine war.
France will never fight alone against russia, so not convenient to compare the two arsenals. But once again, russian fighters were not brillant, and that's why they don't clinch new export order.
SEAD/DEAD is a french lack. We are waiting a proper answer. It is on the agenda.

CAATSA prevents exports. Quite a few countries canceled their Su-35 orders because of it.

While I agree with their fighters not being up to par right now, their air defenses have been praised.

One of France's missions is to fight Russia alone if necessary. But let's see how Europe reacts to Russia's military buildup during the Trump era, that will give us clues.
 
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I hadn't seen the request, but why me?

Coz you're the resident expert here on military aviation especially all things concerning the Rafale , that's why.
Your IAF officers are more familiar with the Rafale than I am now, so ask them for their opinion on this IFRI document and they'll laugh in your face at certain passages. But it's true that France has a dramatic shortage of weapons. As far as MCO is concerned, this is much less true since we awarded vertical contracts to Dassault, which are similar to your PBL. This shows that the authors are rehashing old information, and it's not just in this area.
It seems the IAF & the security establishment have another solution for the stealth conundrum.



For those interested in knowing how will we counter stealth, please go through this excellent primer on the topic especially the second half of the article - Countering Stealth Technologies , in particular the last but two paragraph .

Pls also note that we're integrating the radar systems not just of our services but all such existing radars & systems including in the civilian domain into a seamless network cum targeting solution which also includes the proposed Voronezh radar & its derivatives

 
The subject of stealth always seems to tickle a nerve.
However, I invite people to try and compare progress over 30 years between
  • on the one hand, passive stealth, materials, treatments, design of flow structures passing through the engine/aircraft
  • on the other hand, the explosion in capabilities in the field of radar, optics, underlying electronics, signal processing and associated algorithmic processing.
If, for a Mirage 2000C pilot, it is normal to be flabbergasted by the obvious domination of an F-22 during its decade of appearance,
it is less understandable that people should see passive stealth as an eternal income.
Otherwise they might well experience the same surprise as the Russians and Ukrainians when faced with the transparency of their confrontation zone.
 
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The long range early warning radar based on Voronezh is for BMD and detecting high altitude bombers, not for tactical use against fighters.
 

Production in India

For their construction, as previously reported, the first three aircraft are being built in France at Dassault Aviation’s main production facility in Bordeaux-Mérignac. However the four following airframes will be assembled in India. Dassault Aviation has planned to transfer the Falcon 2000 assembly line from Mérignac to Nagpur, in the new factory of Dassault Reliance Aerospace Limited (DRAL). Note that all the airframes produced in Nagpur will fly to Mérignac in order to be converted to military standard.
 
LFRJ started long before Russia reneged on ToT. Brahmos engine was supposed to be built in India via ToT, but DRDO had its own independent program with no relation to whether Brahmos succeeded or not. It was supposed to give birth to a whole family of new systems.

LFRJ technologies developed are now being used in LR-LACM, STAR, and other future programs.
 
The subject of stealth always seems to tickle a nerve.
However, I invite people to try and compare progress over 30 years between
  • on the one hand, passive stealth, materials, treatments, design of flow structures passing through the engine/aircraft
  • on the other hand, the explosion in capabilities in the field of radar, optics, underlying electronics, signal processing and associated algorithmic processing.
If, for a Mirage 2000C pilot, it is normal to be flabbergasted by the obvious domination of an F-22 during its decade of appearance,
it is less understandable that people should see passive stealth as an eternal income.
Otherwise they might well experience the same surprise as the Russians and Ukrainians when faced with the transparency of their confrontation zone.

In the debate between tried and tested versus new and unique, the latter will always be challenged.

IAF's MMRCA requirement was for a 4.5th gen jet, so anti-stealth capabilities were not the primary goal. Otoh, MRFA may have that as a goal, so let's see if the IAF's opinion changes when presented with new opportunities by the Russians and Americans that use tried and tested methods while MRFA progresses.
 
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Every surface missile with enough payload is "nuclear-capable," but that doesn't mean it is used for that role. We do not use Brahmos for that purpose.

So we will send Jaguars and Mirage 2000 with Nuke payload

And wait for them to be shot down

Don't you remember that in Feb 2019 ,.we were prepared to use missiles

Now if Pakistan had used NASR with Nukes , what would have we
Done at that point

Since There had been no war till that point , Pakistan’s Air defences were Intact

There are No Rules in War

And Nukes have to used before they are destroyed by the Enemy

A small Nuke with Brahmos can take out Mangla Cantonment or Khuzdar Garrison

We need not use City busters
 
@Speedster1, @_Anonymous_
, @STEPHEN COHEN

Guys, BrahMos-A's primary job to deter Chinese Carrier Battle Group and turn IOC as their graveyard once they try to get naughty. I don't want discuss about this topic on an open forum but just think about the other French beauty for the role you're deeming for MKI + BrahMos combo;);)
 
CAATSA prevents exports. Quite a few countries canceled their Su-35 orders because of it.

While I agree with their fighters not being up to par right now, their air defenses have been praised.

One of France's missions is to fight Russia alone if necessary. But let's see how Europe reacts to Russia's military buildup during the Trump era, that will give us clues.
CAATSA is not a problem for India to add brand new Su30MKI, or S400 purchase....

there were many S300 and S400 destroyed in Ukraine.... despite a high density of systems (short and medium range) and radars.

France against Russia? not imagined alone I think.
If we want to Stop Pakistan from a
Nuclear strike , what is the Best option
You want to make a preventive strike ? It is far too late, with too many Nuc warheads already made.
Only possible in the iranian case, and Israelis has to urge !