Yes, it's not very fast, but it's the fastest we've been able to do.
True and at least here I don't blame Dassault, but clearly the government, for making up a fake requirement to justify this order.
Yes, it's not very fast, but it's the fastest we've been able to do.
Eric Trappier stated in March 2015, that the deal is close to be signed and responsibility issue settled.
Read again! 18 Rafales by April 2019 vs 1 Rafale by Sept 2019
There is no fast racking, in the Rafale deal, just as the explanation of emergency because of modernisation of enemies, that the government presented, makes no sense either.
True and at least here I don't blame Dassault, but clearly the government, for making up a fake requirement to justify this order.
Do you know all the problems you have listed have little to do with the govt itself.
All the tenders you have named are still stuck in the SPM process, and is mostly held up by all the potential SPs. The govt has done well to clear the logjam, but the delays have been due to the SPs not deciding upon the right way to compete.
Wherever the govt has power, those programs have proceeded quite unimpeded, like the FTP for the rifles, and even the 24 helicopter contract. The request for 24 helicopters was initiated only yesterday, so there is movement on the front. There has been movement on the contracts for other helicopters also, including 123 NMRH and 111 NUM. The Ka-226T is still stuck in negotiations, which has nothing to do with the govt, and the LUH is still under development.
All our army equipment is pretty much on track. The navy is also well on track. Only the air force is a bit slow because the LCA is still without FOC and the Rafale is now stuck in a controversy, but the second tranche orders will come through anyway.
Let's see all the big ticket stuff that the govt has already cleared, shall we?
Army:
Barak
Akash S1
Rifles, carbines - FTP
AK-103
Ka-226T
LCH
M777
K9
ATAGS
Dhanush
More BMP-2s
6 new regiments of Pinaka
2 regiments of Brahmos
WWR stockpiles
BPJs and helmets
T-90S and BMP-2 upgrades
464 T-90MS... Expected to be before govt leaves office, already with the CCS.
6 Apache... Expected to be signed before the govt leaves office.
Air force:
Barak
LCA Mk1A
Rafale
S-400
Brahmos (Agreed but the previous regime had placed more orders for this)
Apache
Chinook
Ka-226T
...Need I say more?
Navy:
11 frigates - P-17A and Krivak III
6 SSN
ASW corvettes
More P-8s
24 NMRH letter sent to the US yesterday.
And this obviously does not cover all the other major DRDO projects initiated under Modi, including import substitution programs like the QRSAM and MPATGM.
See, pretty much all that I listed are contracted or will very soon be contracted. All of it in 5 years, and this is not even the complete list. Most richer countries take 15 years to get all this stuff. Dunno how this is not enough. What is one really expecting the govt to do?
One thing about defence, there is never enough money. So all procurement programs happen based on priority. Considering the list above, this govt has done a really tremendous job.
Lets look at your list and see how far its true.
Army:
1. Barak
2. Akash S1
3. Rifles, carbines - FTP (Order still not placed, sure call it FTP but nothing ordered in 4.5 years)
4. AK-103(Order still not placed)
5. Ka-226T(Order still not placed)
6. LCH(Order still not placed)
7. M777
8. K9
9. ATAGS(Order still not placed)
10. Dhanush
11. More BMP-2s (Agreed, because no money for FICV/FRCV)
12. 6 new regiments of Pinaka
13. 2 regiments of Brahmos (No order for Army placed by current government, 2 regiments ordered by UPA under delivery since 2016)
14. WWR stockpiles
15. BPJs and helmets
16. T-90S and BMP-2 upgrades (No agreements signed so far)
17. 464 T-90MS... Expected to be before govt leaves office, already with the CCS.(Order still not placed)
18. 6 Apache... Expected to be signed before the govt leaves office.(Order still not placed)
(Score = 9.5/18)
Air force:
1. Barak
2. LCA Mk1A (Order still not placed)
3. Rafale (Agreed, But 36 instead of 126)
4. S-400
5. Brahmos
6. Apache
7. Chinook
8. Ka-226T (Order still not placed)
...Need I say more? LOL. If its more cooked up examples, please No thank you!
(Score = 5.5/8)
Navy:
1. 11 frigates - P-17A and Krivak III
2. 6 SSN
3. ASW corvettes (Not even sure which project is this, please dont tell me Karmota class. If you are talking about the shallow crafts,order still not placed)
4. More P-8s
5. S5 SSBN... AFAIK, one S4 and the S5 class was signed under Modi. (S4 hull fabrication was almost over before this government took office, the 12 silo unit recieved inital funding by the previous government. But I'm not going to try and prove it, so lets call this a tie)
6. 24 NMRH letter sent to the US yesterday. (Order still not placed. Sure, yesterday today tomorrow whatever. )
(Score = 3/5)
(Still means not ordered as of today yea?) Should I remind you how many price extensions both governments had taken in the past after reaching this stage for multiple FMS procurements?
Why do you have to create things out of thin air to justify your statements? I already said that this government may have done a better job than the previous government, its just that they haven't done enough for a so called nationalist government that took office pointing to how UPA had underfunded and overlooked the defense forces. You say its not the governments mistake that most of the deals are stuck under negotiations, but you need to know that the negotiations take longer because the forces understand they don't have the money to sign up for them in the particular Financial year due to limited budgets. Every year they give out a list of priorities with respect to money available in hand and all the remaining projects get stretched out in long negotiations in order to limit price escalation. It is not a state secret that the capital budget had started witnessing significant reduction in the composition of total defense budget. Do you want me to pull your own optimistic statements of our defense budget hitting the worlds third largest by 2020 and so on? Anyways I'm out.
Good Day!
Adding orders only for 10 x LCH. Rest ............ no clue.
Let's compare this list with ground realities once the Moral Code of Conduct comes into force, shall we?
LCH orders have already been placed. Production began last year.
5 for the army and 10 for the air force. So 15 are in production.
"We are looking at orders for 83 LCA Mk-1s and 15 Light Combat Helicopters (LCH)," Madhavan said.
Nov 02, 2018, 11.51 PM IST
//economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/66482255.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst
++ I wonder why Chairman of HAL is not aware of the LSP order for 15 LCH. Maybe because the government didn't place the order yet even after granting DAC approval on August, 2017? Very interesting indeed.
Production began in 2017.
Bengaluru: Defence Minister Arun Jaitley launches HAL's light combat helicopter
Madhavan is referring to the second batch of 15 LCH.
India set to order second batch of LCH helos - Air & Cosmos - International
HAL has received an RFP for a second batch of Light Combat Helicopters following the initial batch ordered at the official production launch in August.
30 LSP version units, very interesting indeed. Any info about the FOC status of LCH? Still waiting on Helina?
this is the only place I saw the "second RFP" of 15 LCH. I seriously doubt that its true. we are only awaiting the first 15 as of now. the IAF RFP list does not have the LCH in it:India set to order second batch of LCH helos - Air & Cosmos - International
HAL has received an RFP for a second batch of Light Combat Helicopters following the initial batch ordered at the official production launch in August.
this is the only place I saw the "second RFP" of 15 LCH. I seriously doubt that its true. we are only awaiting the first 15 as of now. the IAF RFP list does not have the LCH in it:
Capital Procurement | Indian Air Force | Government of India
The only one that is talking about conspiracy is you, I am pointing to the same issues, that the SC is investigating too, due process and decision making that lead to the cut down of numbers.
The Hollande statement falls into the same field, because it's about due process and possible deviation during the talks in Paris as well, but thats not what was issued aa complaints. So don't try to undermine it, because your own source already confirmed what I said.
That's about the Hollande statement and the press releases that you referred to. Which however doesn't matter wrt the allegations or the talks in Paris, as the government continue to show, the DPP "only" refers to the contract negotiations!
You can't correct me, because you ignore what the government itself is saying!
They took MMRCA evaluation reports as the basis for the Rafale deal. There was no new procedure ahead of the announcement in Paris "according to the government documents"!!!
"Their" whole point is, that an IGA doesn't need new procedures and therfore they only refer to following DPP after the announcement and from the IGA onwards. Even the DAC clearances came out only by accident and now they added suddenly, that the MMRCA cancellation started in March and not just in June, as stated before. The SC even asked about that and how a new deal could be made, when the old RFP was still on? To which the AG has no answer to.
The same way they did it with the LUH tender, cancelling it before they went to a G2G deal => cancelling MMRCA and asking the vendor of the 2nd qualified fighter for a G2G deal. So the government has even a precedent on how to do it the right way and without cutting down numbers or licence production in India, but they / the PM chose to do it differently this time and that's opens up the whole deal for valid questions!
The documents they released only confirmed how shady the whole procurement is (enemy 400 fighters, so we buy 36, MMRCA evaluation as the base, but only 1 of the qualified fighters will be considered, no explanation on how, when or by whom the cut down was decided...) and added a new note too, with the revalations on government guarantees and that the NDA law ministry even objected that point, that later was simply overruled by CCS.
What that the SC makes out of this and if there are enough legally binding issues, needs to be seen, but it's clear why the government has so much trouble to defend the deal, let alone find 1 common way to do it.
can you find one another source that talks about the second RFP for LCH?It's a nomination based RFP, not a tender, so it won't be listed there. If you haven't noticed the link does not have the LCA Mk1A either, which is also nomination based.
Interesting detail noticed on the French forum:
This access panel is new.
can you find one another source that talks about the second RFP for LCH?