S-400 'Triumf' News & Discussion

I don't really know why they believe the S-400s will mostly be static. We ultimately plan to operate 40 batteries at the minimum, it's obvious some will be static, not all of them.

And what's weird is just saying the S-400 missiles have a shelf life of 10 years. The missiles actually have a 15-year life and the procurement of missiles are stretched over 10+ years. So missiles will be available until 2035-45. And the SAM system itself will undergo MLUs along with a new tranche of missile orders. We can easily operate the SAM for 40 years. We could see it being phased out in the 2060s.

The doubts about India not getting the 40N6 is weird. There is nothing stopping its sale to India especially when we are even operating a Russian SSN.

As for the tactics and weapons to be used against the SAM system, all of those are generic Desert Storm tactics. The S-400 has counters to all of them. The only thing that will work against the S-400 will be stealth. Unless you have stealth, you have to be prepared to take heavy losses anyway. The PAF could end up using all their resources in just countering the S-400 throughout the war.

Would the PAF even be involved in a war that includes S-400's and Rafales? They might either sit it out voluntarily or be largely wiped out in the opening hours of the war once India replenishes its squadron numbers and adds cutting edge tech to the mix.
 
And that itself will be enough for IAF to wreck havoc in Pakistan with PAF tied down. A couple of squadrons of su30mkis in offensive and MIG29s & mirages patrolling and providing air cover to Indian army it will be end game for Pakistan with rest of IAF fleet available for China which will have to face at least 10 squadrons of su30mkis and 2 squadrons of Rafales which is enough to defend any Chinese design.
They don't realise this or acting like ostrich with head in sand and thinking everything is ok...🙂

The S-400 and Rafale combo will shift the balance towards our favour to ridiculous levels in the entire Punjab sector. They fly, they die.

As for their attitude, they cannot even accept that the surgical strikes happened, so of course they will be forced to lie about everything else that's not in their favour. They are experts at making sh1t up.
 
Would the PAF even be involved in a war that includes S-400's and Rafales? They might either sit it out voluntarily or be largely wiped out in the opening hours of the war once India replenishes its squadron numbers and adds cutting edge tech to the mix.

As Hellfire has already pointed out, it will take 2 days to wipe out the PAF. Of course, they would have to actually fight us. They could end up hiding, like they did in the 1971 war, pretending to be preparing for a "counteroffensive" at a "later" date.
 
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As Hellfire has already pointed out, it will take 2 days to wipe out the PAF. Of course, they would have to actually fight us. They could end up hiding, like they did in the 1971 war, pretending to be preparing for a "counteroffensive" at a "later" date.
You're jumping the gun here. It's not as if we have 6 squadrons of Rafales. In 4 years we'd have 36. We have next to no info on the rest.It's all up in the air . In that time think of the no of JF-17's Block -3, they'd be fielding. How many LCA's would we have by then? How many squadrons would we be retiring? Let's not pretend the S-400, inspite of its many advantages is some sort of magic bullet. We have quite some distance to go before we completely dominate Pakistan, war games and their results, notwithstanding. Let's not become Pakistanis in thought - 1 Mard e Momin = 10 banias = Rafales + S-400 = complete dominance of PAF.
 
You're jumping the gun here. It's not as if we have 6 squadrons of Rafales. In 4 years we'd have 36. We have next to no info on the rest.It's all up in the air . In that time think of the no of JF-17's Block -3, they'd be fielding. How many LCA's would we have by then? How many squadrons would we be retiring? Let's not pretend the S-400, inspite of its many advantages is some sort of magic bullet. We have quite some distance to go before we completely dominate Pakistan, war games and their results, notwithstanding. Let's not become Pakistanis in thought - 1 Mard e Momin = 10 banias = Rafales + S-400 = complete dominance of PAF.

We are a bit too overwhelming in the air already, with our existing systems, let alone Rafale and S-400. PAF's addition of the Block IIIs will not change the equation much, it's just a regular upgrade on pretty much the same airframe.
 
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http://forceindia.net/russia-bullish-india/

The large Russian contingent with 39 companies at Aero India is enthusiastic about its special strategic relations with India. The media interaction of deputy director, Federal Services for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC), Anatoly G. Punchuk, which demonstrated the forthrightness not usually associated with Russians was evidence of this. Here are his five responses:

One, “We have offered both Su-35 and MiG-35 to the invitation received by us since the tender (Request for Proposal which would list the technical specifications) has not been opened yet,” he said. Both aircraft while being twin-engine are technically different and thus are meant for different roles. MiG-35 while being “state-of-art fighter is continuation of the MiG family,” while Su-35 is heavier, with long range, more payload carrying capacity and hence more expensive. What both aircraft share is “economics of infrastructure, commonality of weapons and maintenance.” Not willing to take chances, the idea of offering both aircraft is meant to cover the possible technical specifications that would be sought by the Indian Air Force. It is axiomatic that Russia would showcase the growth potential of these fourth-generation plus aircraft after the RFP is out; it would then offer fifth generation sensors, avionics and weapon systems for operationalisation.

Two, Russians are clearly not perturbed by the American sanctions. “We don’t see how S-400 can be impacted by sanctions. We would like to do financial transactions in local currency,” he said, adding that India has a stable currency. Elaborating, he said that, “We have done it quite successfully with India in the past.” In case of S-400 (where transactions would be huge), Punchuk said that while Russia was ready for transactions in local currency, work should start on this as soon as possible. Regarding S-400, while he said that “this (local currency) could be one area (way of doing transaction),” he did not elaborate on other possible modes of transaction. Does that mean that delivery of S-400 could get delayed? Denying this emphatically, he said that contract for five regiments of S-400 was signed in October 2018, and the first regiment would be delivered to India within 24 months of that date. Punchuk clarified that India would get the 380km range 40N6E interceptor as part of the S-400 contract.

Three, on Su-30MKI, which is the backbone of IAF’s combat punch, Punchuk said that till date 187 aircraft (out of total 272) have been made in India. Russia had “received an official request (from India) for 18 more aircraft in January 2019 for which we (Russia) are preparing a commercial offer.” This is not all. There is also the need to modernise and upgrade the existing Su-30MKI fleet. What Punchuk did not say is that once the Russian Zhuk-AME AESA radar becomes operational (according to Jane’s Defence Weekly, this would happen by 2020), Su-30MKI would get more powerful sensors, avionics and engine. The IAF overall requirement could easily jump to a total of affordable 350 numbers of Su-MKI. The Indian media is fond of calling the new-look Su-30MKI as super Sukhoi, a term that Russian officials do not acknowledge.

Four, on the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), Punchuk said, “The joint project was suspended by India. We are open to negotiations and ready to come back to the table even when Russia has already made the Su-57 aircraft.” A first of its kind, the Inter Government Agreement for the joint-project from design to research to development and production was signed in 2007. A key reason why the project did not go as expected was reportedly on division on labour. While being an equal partner in funding, India was not given equal work by the Russia side. Whatever the reasons, it is obvious that the FGFA would come back in some form in the future since the IAF has requirement for fifth generation aircraft. Certainly not in an unclear futuristic time-frame that the indigenous Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft seems to be promising.

And five, Russian is gung-ho on winning the Very Short-Range Air Defence System (VSHORAD) competition. The competition was between Russian IGLA-S, MBDA’s Mistral and SAAB’s RBS-70NG. “We won because our system met technical parameters, and was cheaper than the rivals,” Punchuk said. While dismissing media query that the competitors had complaint on the fairness of the result, he said that this competition dispelled the criticism that Russia only got government to government orders. “We won in a multi-stage competition,” he insisted. While Punchuk responded to many more media questions which included Ka-226T, more Mi-17VS and so on, the interesting thing was that not once was he evasive.

This mattered on two counts: his forthright answers exemplified the level of mutual confidence between India and Russia on military-technical matters. And importantly, the usually reticent and invisible FSMTC officials have decided to play on the front foot. To put matters into perspective, created in 2004, the FSMTC reports to the Russian President on all foreign military-technical cooperation. Since the Russian President is single window shop for all defence, military and technology matters, the significance of the office of the FSMTC cannot be overemphasized.
 
Went through this thread from start in quick read - summary of my assessment of the discussion
1-25 page BMD - desperate attempt to convince all S400 is not good, wont work, isn't capable, too costly, already everyone has a solution to render it unusable etc etc - he was truly very concerned for the sake of India, they shouldn't buy the worst possible Air Denial tech available. Such was his concern for Indians money spent on this platform, that he spend atleast a 100hrs on this thread to help poor India not to err with this mistake. I truly appreciate your effort
Kafi bari mirchi lagi hai isko - vo bhi lal wali
 

India likely to pay for Russian arms in euros to bypass US sanctions: Report
Certain payments for the defence transactions have already been processed through the rupee-rouble route.
Moneycontrol News@moneycontrolcom



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Russian S-400 (File image:
To avoid the threat of US sanctions for the purchase of Russian military hardware, India is likely to make its payments for Russian arms in euros to a Russia-nominated bank, reportsThe Economic Times.

The move comes as an alternative payment system for the defence equipment as the threat of US action under the controversial Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) has scared away financial institutions from processing these transactions.

Sources told the paper that a solution was firmed up this month with Russia’s VTB Bank agreeing to receive payments,worth $4 billion are remaining for this financial year, in euros. These include payments for the S-400 air defence missile system, a lease on the Chakra III submarine and four frigates to be procured for the Indian Navy.

Two additional Russian contracts- one for the supply of AK 203 rifles to the armed forces that will be manufactured in Amethi, and the other, an Army contract to procure Ka-226 helicopters, which will be produced by a HAL-Russian Helicopters JV.

The Russian bank is open to using a European account for the transaction and Indian Bank, selected for the transaction, will have the least exposure to US currency. In the past few years, VTB Bank has processed large deals in India like the over $12 billion investment into the Essar Group, bailing it from bankruptcy.

India on June 26 told the US that it will go by its national interest on S-400 missile deal with sanctions-hit Russia, its strong stance conveyed by External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar to his American counterpart Mike Pompeo during their wide-ranging meeting.

In April last year, after Russia’s flagship arms trading company, Rosoboronexport, came under sanctions from the US Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC), the State Bank of India put a stop to all payments, blocking over $2 billion that had to be transferred. India found an alternative payment route, using banks with little exposure to the US. However, the issue persisted for over a year as Russian financial institutions also refused to be a part of transactions that could jeopardise their global business.
 
Quite a comprehensive report, Shiv Aroor out does himself. This is the kind of reporting that is needed to raise the profile of India's defence journalists.(y)

From The Site That Will Build India’s Most Controversial Weapon

by Shiv Aroor, Jul 12, 2019-12:33 pm
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ST. PETERSBURG, RUSSIA. You never need to look very far for Cold War metaphors in Russia. But if there’s one that greets you as you drive into a sprawling gated-off site on the outskirts of St. Petersburg, the first thing you see is an SA-2 Dvina — the anti-air missile that, in 1960, brought down a U-2 spy plane flown by CIA pilot Francis Gary Powers. The missile, painted white and orange, is a proud tribute to an incident that Russia still regards fondly, even if it harks back to a dangerous, uncertain and historically threatening time.

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Most Russians — certainly those involved in the country’s defence — will tell you that history works in befuddling spirals. And the rank hostilities of that time have, at least in part, surfaced again. And if there had to be one epicentre in Russia’s enormous landmass, it would be here.

It is this facility on the cold, windswept shores of the Baltic Sea that finds itself at the centre of distant India’s most delicate strategic tangle. It is from here, a production facility of Russia’s Almaz Antey, that India will begin receiving five regiments of the explosively controversial S-400 Triumf advanced anti-aircraft defence system starting next year. Amidst very tense maneouvering with an openly angry Trump Administration, India has stood its ground and will be clearing payments to Russia for the missile system shortly — something that will do two things: set the $5.2 billion contract in motion after months of escalating pressure, and two, instantly trigger production at the Almaz Antey’s North West production centre here on the outskirts of St. Petersburg.


Livefist Editor Shiv Aroor was invited to be among India’s first journalists to tour the production facility and be briefed on the S-400 system. As per terms of the contract, deliveries roughly two years after first payments. The facility therefore aims to deliver all five systems between late 2020 till 2024, with one regiment a year, a schedule that has come under pressure owing to diplomatically-compelled delays in the first payments.

There will be no delays in delivery, The production facility is equipped with state of art equipment and highly automated lines. Even if the first payment is delayed, even if there are other orders being executed, we are absolutely sure the lines can be worked at capacity to deliver on time and within the framework of the contract,” says Irina Volokitina, first deputy director at the Almaz Antey North West Production Facility.

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This sprawling production facility was placed under American economic sanctions in July 2014 by the Obama Administration following Russia’s annexation of the Crimean Peninsula and the ongoing Ukrainian crisis, sanctions that have forced India to rapidly evolve new payment methods for both pipeline and fresh defence contracts. The S-400 contract, signed late last year by the Putin and Modi governments, presented itself as a test case for how the two countries could bypass sanctions for payments to be made.

“With the S-400 we have found a permanent solution with the Indian side,” says Vladimir Drozhzhov, deputy director of Russia’s apex Federal Service on Military Technical Cooperation (FSMTC). “The details are quite confidential since banking institutions are involved, but there are nuances which will change with each contract. On big contracts with India, we have agreed with a schedule of payments that are mutually acceptable to both sides. These payment methods and schedules are fully in line with the contracts — they are designed to make the sure the contracts happen on time. The solution that we have found can be applied to future contracts.”

The S-400 system, widely acknowledged to be among the most effective air defence systems, is currently being produced for the Russian military and most recently Turkey — reports suggest deliveries to the country have just begun. The latter contract has placed Turkey in a destructive confrontation with the United States, with billions of dollars in armament supply (including the F-35 fighter) among much else at stake. India’s own S-400 situation has been less angular, less fraught with absolutes, mostly owing to India’s long-standing relationship with Russia, as well as a strategic hedging that has seen the United States partake substantially in India’s rising regional ambitions. While Russia has $14 billion in defence contracts being executed at present to India, the United States will be looking to close no less than $10 billion in the next three years, consolidating a steady-rate supply of advanced armament to a country it sees, quite plainly, as a stabilising force to China’s own unpredictable rise. China, also a buyer of the S-400 hasn’t helped Washington’s mood, though on that radial, the U.S. doesn’t have leverage.

India, incidentally, is in advanced talks to procure the U.S. National Advanced Surface to Air Missile System (NASAMS II). When Livefist asked about concerns over whether the S-400 would plug seamlessly into the Indian air defence network — and crucially be able to ‘talk’ to other air defence systems (including the NASAMS II) in a dynamic and emergent targeting scenario, Volokitina put it delicately.

“The decision on which anti-missile system to use is India’s sovereign choice. What we can say for sure is that the S-400 is the only multilayered system in the world and can provide comprehensive protection,” she said.

She then went to speak of why the S-400, in Russia’s view is acknowledged as one of the world’s most effective air defence systems.

“The S-400 has three advantages against competitors,” Volokitina said. “First, the range (detection and engagement) is twice its nearest rivals. Its range is up to 400 km, and can cover heights of up to 30 km. The second advantage is time taken to deploy — 3 times shorter than rivals. The S-400 is not a separate system — it’s a whole complex. It has a whole array of systems. The missiles in the system have different capabilities and ranges. So it provides multilayered protection. No other system in the world has the same capability. The third advantage is the competitive price.”

Indian Air Force teams will arrive in Russia next year for inspection and training on the S-400 to coincide with the production of the first regiment ahead of delivery. Deployed in India, and with a sweep that covers the full span of air threats from Pakistan and most from China, the S-400 is designed to destroy ballistic targets, unmanned air targets and all kinds of aircraft. Volokitina stresses that it is also one of most jam resistant systems in the world. The unprecedented mobilisation of U.S. heft against S-400 contracts, most here at Almaz Antey believe, is more testament than anything else to the quality of the system.

“The S-400 is capable of detecting and destroying stealth targets,” says an officer at Almaz-Antey. But due to objective reasons, there has never been a situation where it has been required to do so. We have worked out these scenarios. We also know from the western media that governments acknowledge those capabilities.”

The S-500 Prometey, a successor to the S-400, will be operational with the Russian Army next year. The system essentially replace and supplement some of the S-400’s missiles to give it a strategic anti-missile capability.


https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...l-build-indias-most-controversial-weapon.html