S-500 is for ABM , ACM & anti AWACS having successfully tested the longest range SAM according to US estimates at 400 + kms .
These reports aren't new . IIRC , I've read them when we signed the contract with Russia for the 5 x S-400 give or take a few , that we'd go in for the S-450 (?) Or the S-500 in the second tranche .
Apparently the initial idea was to go in for 10 x S-400 SAMs where 2 + would be directly imported & the rest built under ToT with Russia except that the TIME taken to negotiate & ink the contract would be significantly delayed given our usual MO , thereby jeopardizing the IAF's future operational plans further which would've been disastrous given the much delayed MRFA & other acquisitions , apart from the costs involved .
Hope RST takes note , where the GoI wants to move fast it does so , as in the above example . But then again , Russia was involved. Hence Congress kept mum .
However with kind of rapid progress DRDO has made in developing our own indigenous ABD / IADS systems , there seems to be a rethink . But the agreement / G2G between Russia & India may have been signed accounting for such contingencies which'd come in handy now for in the time we'd need to mature these ERSAM / XRSAM , we can get those S-500 much before these indigenous systems.
Those S-400 regiment numbers, are all for the IAF or other 2 services get any?
I do think extra numbers will be mainly indigenous tech, and I suspect DRDO also work with relevant Rus org for the tracking & telemetry part, generating sim, writing full algo, those are very important to build the system & like the Israelis you first need handholding to gain expertise on it.
Basically my view is for a complex long range system like S-400 being made fully indigenous, making the long range projectile is the easiest part perhaps, the missile part. Making the equivalent system that makes the missile usable where the radar is of very long range search and track capability, the telemetry system, simulating the whole system for validation, writing the code/algo for the FCR, finally proving that by successful demo, all of this need extremely precise system knowledge. I think this is where the major work is going on & possibly by joint dev work ie DRDO guys taking Rus help. Dr Kamat said DRDO is currently working on long range radars during Aero India show, almost certainly that would find application in this.
I do think extra numbers will be mainly indigenous tech, and I suspect DRDO also work with relevant Rus org for the tracking & telemetry part, generating sim, writing full algo, those are very important to build the system & like the Israelis you first need handholding to gain expertise on it.
Basically my view is for a complex long range system like S-400 being made fully indigenous, making the long range projectile is the easiest part perhaps, the missile part. Making the equivalent system that makes the missile usable where the radar is of very long range search and track capability, the telemetry system, simulating the whole system for validation, writing the code/algo for the FCR, finally proving that by successful demo, all of this need extremely precise system knowledge. I think this is where the major work is going on & possibly by joint dev work ie DRDO guys taking Rus help. Dr Kamat said DRDO is currently working on long range radars during Aero India show, almost certainly that would find application in this.
Producing the S-400 isn't a good idea. It's gonna make it twice as expensive and not much benefits. We would definitely need spares and maintenance though. The war's closed the opportunity for pretty much anything except exotic tech, so the S-500/550 class are more likely to happen than additional S-400s, considering DRDO cannot duplicate such capabilities.
Nothing big's gonna happen during the war. The IAF still need to initiate a lot of MLU programs with Russia for existing systems, and that goes into billions. We gotta get those out of the way first.
IAF only. The IA is only allowed to operate short range systems, and the IN have a different set of requirements.
Nothing big's gonna happen during the war. The IAF still need to initiate a lot of MLU programs with Russia for existing systems, and that goes into billions. We gotta get those out of the way first.
IAF only. The IA is only allowed to operate short range systems, and the IN have a different set of requirements.
S-500 is not special. The only thing it does it that it can attacks awacs and transport aircraft too. PDV Mark 2 is better for intercepting our main threats (df-21d and df-26). The Russian are stupid for making such multipurpose missiles which is ultimately derived from the s-300v4.
S-500 can intercept slow moving targets like AWACS etc. from 600kms away. It's much more advance than S-400.
If you can believe Russian BS, 600km is if the airliner size aircraft is flying in straight line at 35k feet and not defending with ECM/EW.
It has the same radars as the S-300 and S-400, it just has a new BMD-specific radar included. It's basically replacing the S-300 in Russia.
Also, the S-500 has anti-hypersonic capabilities, DRDO is yet to develop something here. So it will be necessary as stopgap.
We will have to wait and see. But if we are to invest in more Russian SAMs, it has to be the S-500.
Actually 600km is beyond the radar horizon. Russia plans on using a proper CEC for this. They won't achieve it.
Unless you believe in Russian marketing then sure it can even intercept Shazam. Fact is Russia has not tested a conventional HGV.
For a radar 5m above ground, the radar horizon is 550Km against a target at 18Km altitude. At 12Km, it drops down to 450 Km. At 35k feet, it's 425Km.
So the only way for the SAM to exceed that limit is to fire the missile on remote via AWACS, fighter radar or perhaps satellite guidance.
Russia Tests S-500 Air Defense System | Missile Threat
On May 25, Russia successfully tested the S-500 Prometheus surface-to-air missile (SAM) system in the longest test flight to date, striking a target almost 480 km away. According to CNBC, “Russia claims that the ground-based missile system is capable of intercepting hypersonic missiles, drones...
missilethreat.csis.org
They have deployed the Zircon though. They can also use simulation with an electronic target, which is how a lot of testing is done.
S-300 has proved extremely difficult for even Russia to beat in Ukraine. S-400 is way above its league. Except VLO, none would survive where S-400 operates. And even VLO would find it quite challenging to best it.
Few storm shadow missiles were penetrated the defense.
We Indians will be thankful to french people for delivering scalps to IAF. @Picdelamirand-oil i hope we will place more orders for scalp & hammers
So they should be aware of S-300's weakness, right? But yet, Russia has failed to establish air dominance over Ukraine because of these S-300s.
S-400 is designed to intercept VLO fighters. It's way more effective than S-400, just like S-500 is also more effective than it. Progression is part of life after all.
It's Rafale that can use its SPECTRA and terrain hugging flight to get much closer to a target. That increases the effectiveness of both Scalp-EG and Hammer. We need more Rafales, period.
Need not, Russian flying junks consistently performed poorly in past too. So Russian aircraft's failure isn't a testimony to s300 effectiveness.
Ukraine achieved it without Rafale,yeas we do need more Rafales & other Western aircrafts to win the war. But we should admire the effectiveness of scalp too.
Designed,yeas. Question is will it work? Chances are nil against latest western air assets.
That is not the point. S-300 was a system designed by Soviet Union. So Russia has full ins and outs about it. Yet, they could not successfully counter it because of novel use of the system by Ukraine. Any system can be beat, if the operator doesn't use it prudently.
Sclap-EG is an effective weapon, no two ways about it.
Apparently Russian SAMs have neutralized multiple Storm Shadows. Even VLO fighters will have trouble penetrating Russia.