S-400 'Triumf' News & Discussion

[zinswinsin]

All Russian gear is overrated and overstated. Soviet gear is good as evidenced by the S-300 performance from Ukraine.

Also, Russia is so incompetent at the VKS level it's hilarious. It's not a good judge for S-300 or air defense.

Ran out of PGMs in the first 3 weeks, barely fly training, no advanced training other than basic flight ops, no coms, no navigation system(tablets with GPS), no unit training past like 4 planes(if that), training exercises are scripted and provide 0 value, equipment is sold for vodka, etc etc.

I don't think Russia is more advanced on an organizational level than the British fighter control system in WW2.

 

[Innominate]

US offers to sell THAAD to India as alternative to Russian S-400s

The exact date of the offer of THAAD and the PAC-3 systems to India could not be ascertained, but the offer was confirmed by multiple government agencies and people close to these discussions.

www.google.com

Lol. The hindustantimes? Love what it says...

The exact date of the offer of THAAD and the PAC-3 systems to India could not be ascertained, but the offer was confirmed by multiple government agencies and people close to these discussions.​

Riiiight.

 

[Rajput Lion]

All Russian gear is overrated and overstated. Soviet gear is good as evidenced by the S-300 performance from Ukraine.

Also, Russia is so incompetent at the VKS level it's hilarious. It's not a good judge for S-300 or air defense.

Ran out of PGMs in the first 3 weeks, barely fly training, no advanced training other than basic flight ops, no coms, no navigation system(tablets with GPS), no unit training past like 4 planes(if that), training exercises are scripted and provide 0 value, equipment is sold for vodka, etc etc.

I don't think Russia is more advanced on an organizational level than the British fighter control system in WW2.

Talking about Russian gear vs Soviet gear. Well, Su-30MKI has faced reliability problems, especially concerning AL-31FP. But IAF has maintained that it's an amazing plane that has done quite well over the years in exercises, peace time and actual war.

S-400 was evaluated thoroughly by IAF before they placed orders. Anybody who questions the discretion of IAF is either a fool or covert enemy of India.

 

[zinswinsin]

Talking about Russian gear vs Soviet gear. Well, Su-30MKI has faced reliability problems, especially concerning AL-31FP. But IAF has maintained that it's an amazing plane that has done quite well over the years in exercises, peace time and actual war.

S-400 was evaluated thoroughly by IAF before they placed orders. Anybody who questions the discretion of IAF is either a fool or covert enemy of India.

I was more addressing your points. I'm sure the S-400 is fine, good, whatever. Didn't talk about it once. I mostly talked about Russian incompetence at the organizational and logistical level.

The point was post Soviet Russia has no technological breakthroughs and is in general miserable. The S-400 is an upgrade from the S-300.

We can't make an accurate judgement on the S-400 in Ukraine or the S-300 based on the S-300 stopping the VKS is my point because Russia is so incompetent.

I don't believe in the S-500 claims and I'm sure the S-400 claims are also overstated in actual combat circumstances.

All we can judge is results and what we see on the battlefield. Let's see if the S-400 can hit the Kinzal. We know for a fact the Patriot can intercept it.
Russian military gear prestige could not be dropping faster. Why were Storm Shadows able to hit targets with the invincible S-400? Why couldn't they hit GMLRS?

India should not buy from a sinking ship. Russia is strongly on track to lose this war.

 

[Rajput Lion]

I was more addressing your points. I'm sure the S-400 is fine, good, whatever. Didn't talk about it once. I mostly talked about Russian incompetence at the organizational and logistical level.

The point was post Soviet Russia has no technological breakthroughs and is in general miserable. The S-400 is an upgrade from the S-300.

We can't make an accurate judgement on the S-400 in Ukraine or the S-300 based on the S-300 stopping the VKS is my point because Russia is so incompetent.

I don't believe in the S-500 claims and I'm sure the S-400 claims are also overstated in actual combat circumstances.

All we can judge is results and what we see on the battlefield. Let's see if the S-400 can hit the Kinzal. We know for a fact the Patriot can intercept it.
Russian military gear prestige could not be dropping faster. Why were Storm Shadows able to hit targets with the invincible S-400? Why couldn't they hit GMLRS?

India should not buy from a sinking ship. Russia is strongly on track to lose this war.

I could care less about Russia. For me, India matters. That said, India does not forget old friends and dump them. That's not our tradition.

Post USSR, Russians have developed stealth fighters, hypersonic weapons and much more. Perhaps, Americans don't like to admit it. Not my problem.

Bottomline is that it's S-400 thread and IAF bought it despite US pressure and the risk of CAATSA. That tells us about the efficacy of the system. In fact, as per IAF both Rafale and S-400 are game-changers.

 

[randomradio]

I was more addressing your points. I'm sure the S-400 is fine, good, whatever. Didn't talk about it once. I mostly talked about Russian incompetence at the organizational and logistical level.

The point was post Soviet Russia has no technological breakthroughs and is in general miserable. The S-400 is an upgrade from the S-300.

We can't make an accurate judgement on the S-400 in Ukraine or the S-300 based on the S-300 stopping the VKS is my point because Russia is so incompetent.

I don't believe in the S-500 claims and I'm sure the S-400 claims are also overstated in actual combat circumstances.

All we can judge is results and what we see on the battlefield. Let's see if the S-400 can hit the Kinzal. We know for a fact the Patriot can intercept it.
Russian military gear prestige could not be dropping faster. Why were Storm Shadows able to hit targets with the invincible S-400? Why couldn't they hit GMLRS?

India should not buy from a sinking ship. Russia is strongly on track to lose this war.

The problem for Putin is some of his people lumped in the Kinzhal in his wunderwaffe speech. The Avangard and Zircon are special, but the Kinzhal is just an air-launched ballistic missile. Its speed is well within the intercept envelope of the Patriot's 3.5Km/s (up to mach 11) target speed, never mind the S-400's 4.8Km/s (up to mach 15). MEADS could do even better.

The Kinzhal's upper limit is already well within the Patriot's intercept capabilities, whereas the missile will actually slow down much more than that during its terminal phase, likely less than half to a third as fast as its boost speed of mach 10. It's basically a glorified SRBM, whose only real specialty is it's launched from the air, giving it other benefits compared to a ground-launched system doing literally the same thing.

So egg on Putin's face = a very angry Putin.

As for the S-400 vs Storm Shadow or GMLRS, the S-400 can only protect itself or a small area, like an air base from the Storm Shadow. SS's terrain-hugging feature means the missile is detectable only from 20-40Km away. Ukraine seems to be using the SS against other undefended but more vital targets from the PoV of defeating the Russian land forces rather than air bases in Crimea, and it's likely not allowed by the UK either. GMLRS is typically targeted by Buk and Pantsir type systems that sit around protecting the S-400 from SS, GLMRS type rockets, even air-dropped PGMs and artillery shells.

Anyway the S-400 coverage in Ukraine is very low. I believe an S-400 unit was moved into the Donbas only in April. The rest are in Crimea and Russia. And it's likely that the system they deployed in Donbas is the one meant for India. So we have to see how this system reacts to an attack whenever it's carried out, perhaps when the F-16s arrive. By then a second S-400 regiment may find its way into Ukriane. We will eventually find out.

 

[zinswinsin]

I could care less about Russia. For me, India matters. That said, India does not forget old friends and dump them. That's not our tradition.

Post USSR, Russians have developed stealth fighters, hypersonic weapons and much more. Perhaps, Americans don't like to admit it. Not my problem.

Bottomline is that it's S-400 thread and IAF bought it despite US pressure and the risk of CAATSA. That tells us about the efficacy of the system. In fact, as per IAF both Rafale and S-400 are game-changers.

Rafale is very good, no idea why that was brought up.

Old friends who can't provide the same benefits as they could even a year ago. Stealth fighters, not even a regiment is operational. Show it up in Ukraine, Russia desperately needs stealth fighters for air superiority and dealing with the S-300.

Perhaps Americans don't like it? I mean perhaps Indian's should not like it. After all, they're the ones getting ripped off by Russia. I don't like it as an American, because it's bad for the balance of power against China for India to be weaker by having Russian arms.

The S-400 is solid, good. Nothing special. Not worth the uber marketing. In fact, none of the Russian weapons or Army super marketing make any sense.

Surely, you have some doubts about the competence of people who turned a 3 day victory into a likely defeat after 1 year and a half.

 

[Rajput Lion]

I admire your honesty

Rafale is very good, no idea why that was brought up.

Just to justify IAF's perspective.

Old friends who can't provide the same benefits as they could even a year ago.

Despite US/EU pressure, we're still buying Russian oil in dollops. We haven't done anything to hurt Russia. That is India showing its friendship. Yes, nations have interests, but we never forget.

Stealth fighters, not even a regiment is operational. Show it up in Ukraine, Russia desperately needs stealth fighters for air superiority and dealing with the S-300.

It's not mature yet. But after this war, you can bet they are going to expedite all key projects.

Perhaps Americans don't like it? I mean perhaps Indian's should not like it. After all, they're the ones getting ripped off by Russia. I don't like it as an American, because it's bad for the balance of power against China for India to be weaker by having Russian arms.

Thanks for showing your concern, but India and Indian know what is right and wrong for us. We don't like people lecturing us on what to do.

The S-400 is solid, good. Nothing special. Not worth the uber marketing. In fact, none of the Russian weapons or Army super marketing make any sense.

IAF bought it despite CAATSA risk and term it as a game-changer. That itself makes it special.

Surely, you have some doubts about the competence of people who turned a 3 day victory into a likely defeat after 1 year and a half.

We have a whole thread dedicated to this topic. Let's discuss it there.

 

[zinswinsin]

It's not mature yet. But after this war, you can bet they are going to expedite all key projects.

With what money? The goal is to replace 10k vehicles in reserve and active duty. They're down to T-55s.

S-500 development, SU-57 all crippled by the looming financial crunch.

Thanks for showing your concern, but India and Indian know what is right and wrong for us. We don't like people lecturing us on what to do.

IAF bought it despite CAATSA risk and term it as a game-changer. That itself makes it special.

Everyone should hear other peoples opinions. Never change opinions unless it's to reason and good logical sense. Americans are extremely bad at it. We pretty much do the opposite when someone tells us what's wrong or right. It's a bad habit.

I'm just saying, it might have been worth the risk before Russia fell on its face. Not after.

 

[Rajput Lion]

With what money? The goal is to replace 10k vehicles in reserve and active duty. They're down to T-55s.

S-500 development, SU-57 all crippled by the looming financial crunch.

Everyone should hear other peoples opinions. Never change opinions unless it's to reason and good logical sense. Americans are extremely bad at it. We pretty much do the opposite when someone tells us what's wrong or right. It's a bad habit.

I'm just saying, it might have been worth the risk before Russia fell on its face. Not after.

India is all about change dude. We're not stuck in Cold War mindset. We are members of both QUAD and SCO/BRICS FFS, lol. We have cordial relationship with all other nations, we just don't like to toe a single line. That's it.

We import/procure from the best offers. You can't make everyone happy.

 

[LX1111]

India is all about change dude. We're not stuck in Cold War mindset. We are members of both QUAD and SCO/BRICS FFS, lol. We have cordial relationship with all other nations, we just don't like to toe a single line. That's it.

We import/procure from the best offers. You can't make everyone happy.

To have a good relationship with everyone, on the other hand, is not a true ally with eveyone, and no one will help you in the war.

 

[Rajput Lion]

To have a good relationship with everyone, on the other hand, is not a true ally with eveyone, and no one will help you in the war.

Wrong. USSR helped us during 1971 war where we split Pakistan into two. US somewhat helped us during 1961 China war. Israel helped us during Kargil war.

Against our future war with China, US will most definitely help us. We need US' massive ISR network to completely destroy and intercept the Chinese.

 

[RASALGHUL]

To have a good relationship with everyone, on the other hand, is not a true ally with eveyone, and no one will help you in the war.

We are fine with that.

 

[RASALGHUL]

We need US' massive ISR network to completely destroy and intercept the Chinese.

You need to Chill out.

 

[Rajput Lion]

You need to Chill out.

That was regarding battle over Himalayas and not in the absolute sense, lol.

 

[randomradio]

Surely, you have some doubts about the competence of people who turned a 3 day victory into a likely defeat after 1 year and a half.

The global consensus is Russians have good tech, but bad training.

 

[randomradio]

With what money? The goal is to replace 10k vehicles in reserve and active duty. They're down to T-55s.

Rumour mill suggests they are now producing 100+ T-90Ms a month.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1661242057330143233

S-500 development, SU-57 all crippled by the looming financial crunch.

These are big programs, they are not gonna get cancelled due to a financial crunch. If there is any, it's less critical programs that get hit first. Anyway, the S-500 is in serial production and the Su-57 is almost at its end phase in development, so it's not in financial trouble.

 

[Hydra]

S-400 was evaluated thoroughly by IAF before they placed orders. Anybody who questions the discretion of IAF is either a fool or covert enemy of India.

Brilliant way to suppress the opposing voice. But will not work here, s400 is a shit, literally a piece of shit.

 

[Hydra]

Wrong. USSR helped us during 1971 war where we split Pakistan into two. US somewhat helped us during 1961 China war. Israel helped us during Kargil war.

USSR is no more now, and Urain was part of USSR. Just for your information

 

[RASALGHUL]

Rumour mill suggests they are now producing 100+ T-90Ms a month.

I will believe it, When i will see it.