To me it is conceptually flawed system, the 5.56 Nato that IA complains about being under powered being cut smaller doesn't help it's cause.
Small Arms & Tactical Equipment
- Thread starter Parthu
- Start date
But, aren't these carbines meant for close quarter combat? I believe these would be for the RR. The JVPC has already found favour with a number of CAPF's & State Police Dpts. Technical issues that you've detailed didn't impede it's selection. Now, with the UAE built Caracal coming with its own set of issues, isn't it worthwhile having a relook at the JVPC & a retooling too, to sort out the glitches you've listed,if such an endeavour can be achieved in a time bound manner?
For JVPC, you cannot change the cartridge on it. It is what it is.
JVPC and it's earlier avatar MSMC, other than it's cartridge, I have a fundamental problem with its mechanism. JVPC is a PDW/SMG type system which can work as a carbine. B&T makes a nice SMG, so do the Israelis with their Uzi and that weird looking P90, Which are Direct blow back design and then MP7 type systems which is a short stroke piston, but never ever seen a long stroke mag in pistol grip type system. Bluntly speaking it to me seemed like a sloppy redesign of the insas system. The work was so sloppy that they even retained the bayonet lug on the barrel because they used Insas barrel systems. If forces in India are happy with JVPC, more power to them and OFB, I just don't see the sense in designing or fielding such a system.
And given that IA liked the Caracal gun, which is a 416 copy, which is an AR copy should send a signal that IA is ready for a Short stroke AR15 in 10.5" barrell. there are no patents to protect it, You can download each and every part design on the AR15 platform onlne and build it without any IP violation issues as long as you don't call it the AR15, M16 or the M4. What stops OFB from building one, , Private american sector build about 20 different variants of a piston AR15, HK builds it, Turkey builds it, Koreans build one, japanese build one, what stops OFB from doing the same, its a proven ready to go recipe for a successful gun, you already build a 1/10 twist chrome barrel for the insas in 5.56 Nato chamber with m4 feed lips. There is already everything ready all they need is to build one in a month and submit for trials. I am not really sure if the buffons in MoD have an ounce of sense left in them.
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Sandeep Unnithan's glowing review of the JVPC.
Police trials. Pls refer to the comments section below endorsing what you highlighted about the training issues, lack of gun culture, etc among the state Police & CAPF's.
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If sensible people led the tender, then we would have seen at least 4 carbines shortlisted.
Let Tim from MAC or hickock45 review it, The reality would be clear but we know that would never happen for this gun. As for Sandeep Unnithan review, I don't think it was a review, more of a overview.
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Union Minister of State for Home Affairs, Kiren Rijiju checks out some of the NSG's recent acquisitions:
In the center are the FN SCAR-H (black) and the SCAR-L with Mk.13 EGLM grenade launcher (tan), both with what looks like Aimpoint CompM4 sights
Now this I didn't expect. The KRISS Vector, the 9x19mm version I would think.
pics via Unknowncommando on Twitter
This isn't the only new-age SMG that the NSG has been seen with in recent times, the SIG MPX was the other:
I would think they're evaluating a potential replacement for the HK MP-5s (and toward that purpose may have bought small batches of each type for long-term use & reviews before placing big orders). That said I don't think I can recall many (if any at all) anti-terrorism units or Special Forces per se that have adopted the Vector. TDI (now KRISS) intended it for great things and it's certainly become a prolific weapon but when it comes to actual real world use, I don't think the Vector has seen much, despite being around for a significantly longer time than the MPX.
@Milspec anything to say about either of these two guns?
In the center are the FN SCAR-H (black) and the SCAR-L with Mk.13 EGLM grenade launcher (tan), both with what looks like Aimpoint CompM4 sights
Now this I didn't expect. The KRISS Vector, the 9x19mm version I would think.
pics via Unknowncommando on Twitter
This isn't the only new-age SMG that the NSG has been seen with in recent times, the SIG MPX was the other:
I would think they're evaluating a potential replacement for the HK MP-5s (and toward that purpose may have bought small batches of each type for long-term use & reviews before placing big orders). That said I don't think I can recall many (if any at all) anti-terrorism units or Special Forces per se that have adopted the Vector. TDI (now KRISS) intended it for great things and it's certainly become a prolific weapon but when it comes to actual real world use, I don't think the Vector has seen much, despite being around for a significantly longer time than the MPX.
@Milspec anything to say about either of these two guns?
Rashtriya Rifles soldier with Tonbo Imaging's EK Thermal Sight on what looks like an MPi-KMS:
@Milspec Bad stance or just a more comfortable hold for observation? I'd think the latter but not sure.
Can't seem to identify the railed dust cover...doesn't really match either FAB Defense or TDI Arms' models that we use.
@Milspec Bad stance or just a more comfortable hold for observation? I'd think the latter but not sure.
Can't seem to identify the railed dust cover...doesn't really match either FAB Defense or TDI Arms' models that we use.
India gets its own Standards for Bullet resistant jackets; to supply the jackets to South East Asia
The first-ever Indian Standard (IS) on Bullet Resistant Jacket for protection against small arms and ammunition for the defence, paramilitary and police forces was released today.
As has been reported by the Financial Express Online earlier, after a long time India will have its own Standard for Bullet Proof Jackets (BPJ): IS17051:2018, which has now been finalized. The standard prescribes minimum requirements of bulletproof jackets against small arms & their evaluation procedures.
IS 17051-2018 specifies five size designations based on chest/bust girth- XS (72-80 cm), S (above 80-88), M (above 88-96), L (above 96-104), XL (above 104-112). And shall be designed ergonomically to minimize restrictions of movement, which has been ensured by conducting field tests by personnel.
It also includes optional requirements of Quick release system, Dynamic weight distribution system and high buoyancy jackets and covers physical requirements like protection area of Soft armour panel (SAP) (Front, back, groin, neck, collar etc ) and Hard armour panel (HAP), (Front, Back and side for 360 degree protection), maximum aerial densities of BR panels and total weight of jacket. It also specifies six threat levels faced by Indian Army and Para military (Level 1 to 6).
The standard has been adopted by Bureau of Indian Standards (BIS) after the draft finalised by the Textiles Protective Clothing Sectional Committee was approved by the Textile Divisional Council.
The adoption of the standard is considered as a milestone in setting minimum performance requirements of bullet resistant jackets and screens their supply so that only acceptable quality reaches the user.
The standard has been customised to Indian needs and would eventually lead to reduction in fatal casualties to the security forces wearing such jackets. Until now, the bullet proof jackets and helmets being provided to the Indian security forces is based on the NIJ III+ Standard, which refers to ballistic resistance of a body armour.
At a meeting jointly organised by industry body Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) and BIS, Prof K Vijay Raghavan, Principal Scientific Adviser to the Government of India, said that the action now would be on addressing the queries and concerns of industry by BIS and DRDO labs and equipment and methodologies for testing the standard which falls into the broader category of technical textiles.
The challenge is reducing the weight of the jacket from 10.5 kg to 6 kg in consonance with scientific criteria. And the IS for bullet resistant jackets is expected to help in speeding up procurement by the user agencies and in testing of materials. The standard should be adopted in all procurement orders of the security forces.
According to Surina Rajan, Director General, BIS, said, “Our work begins now as we have the indigenous capacity to go to the next level, i.e. use of lighter material for jackets. The standard could become a base to supply the jackets to South East Asia where the requirements are similar to India’s.”
The new standard may not be uniform for different security forces operating in different types of terrain. Therefore, standards have to be dynamic and change with the change in conditions, Dr G Satheesh Reddy, Secretary, Department of Defence R&D and Chairman, DRDO, pointed out.
The new Assault rifles about to be imported would be used by SF's also or they will continue with Tavor????
Newcomers to the Northern Command's arsenal of precision rifles...
Barrett Model 95
The bolt-action .50 bullpup-style anti-material rifle should offer a much-improved degree of mobility thanks to its smaller frame and much lighter carry weight compared to the enormous 14.5/20mm Denel NTW-20 (aka Vidhwansak) which was the Army's go-to AMR so far. I did hear about a handful of M107A1s finding their way into JAK LI's service in recent times, but I'm unsure as to the level or availability of their usage.
Victrix Armaments SCORPIO TGT
This Italy-based company is now owned by Beretta. The bits of news (mostly gathering from tweets) has not been clear so far as to the version of the rifle we're getting, but going by the Army's ongoing RFI for sniper rifles, I'd venture to say this would be chambered in .338 Lapmag. I was initially surprised (still am) by this choice considering Victrix (or Beretta) was not among the initial respondents to the RFI.
Either way, a closed bolt weapon, not to mention in a bigger calibre, coming in to replace the only real precision rifle available to the infantry, the SVD, which is in effect a semi-auto DMR even by Soviet standards, is most welcome. At the least we can expect much tighter tolerances all around, superior accuracy & much better kinematic performance (with the 338) especially at longer ranges. If half of what I know is correct, getting used to an entirely new sniper system is no easy task, it will take a lot of training and trial & error. But then again, sooner we start the better.
@Milspec @Hellfire @randomradio @Nordic Wolf @GuardianRED
Barrett Model 95
The bolt-action .50 bullpup-style anti-material rifle should offer a much-improved degree of mobility thanks to its smaller frame and much lighter carry weight compared to the enormous 14.5/20mm Denel NTW-20 (aka Vidhwansak) which was the Army's go-to AMR so far. I did hear about a handful of M107A1s finding their way into JAK LI's service in recent times, but I'm unsure as to the level or availability of their usage.
Victrix Armaments SCORPIO TGT
This Italy-based company is now owned by Beretta. The bits of news (mostly gathering from tweets) has not been clear so far as to the version of the rifle we're getting, but going by the Army's ongoing RFI for sniper rifles, I'd venture to say this would be chambered in .338 Lapmag. I was initially surprised (still am) by this choice considering Victrix (or Beretta) was not among the initial respondents to the RFI.
Either way, a closed bolt weapon, not to mention in a bigger calibre, coming in to replace the only real precision rifle available to the infantry, the SVD, which is in effect a semi-auto DMR even by Soviet standards, is most welcome. At the least we can expect much tighter tolerances all around, superior accuracy & much better kinematic performance (with the 338) especially at longer ranges. If half of what I know is correct, getting used to an entirely new sniper system is no easy task, it will take a lot of training and trial & error. But then again, sooner we start the better.
@Milspec @Hellfire @randomradio @Nordic Wolf @GuardianRED
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1. Posed for photograph, the stance is irrelevant and need not be commented upon.
2. Wheel indicates an Ashok Leyland Stallion.
Sure hope it was, although I must say that its not uncommon to see some older BEL-made holographic sights being tacked on to AKs on top of a block with a rail, which in turn is tacked on top of the dust cover...offsetting the optic at such a height from the traditional sightline and stance (which should be the position that best allows the shooter to see through the iron sights) that it becomes difficult for the shooter to shoulder the weapon properly while still being able to see through the optic.
It might not be the case with this particular Tonbo TI sight (considering its mounted on a proper dust cover with integrated rails) but it certainly has been the case in the past with the BEL collimators:
The problem is not accuracy, you can set a sight as high or as far to the side as you want (within reason) and you can still be accurate if you zero it properly, the problem (or at least my concern) is about how this could mess up the shooter's shoulder as he tries to get a better sight picture by moving the gun further down than it ideally should be.
Maybe @Milspec can say if this is a real problem with those high-set BEL holos on AKs with non-railed dust covers or if I'm worrying unnecessarily?
Why should it not be commented upon or discussed?
I was trying to identify the dust cover, not the truck.
i.e. this part -
Well, couple of things.
AK's by design don't provide good cheek weld, and adding a side rail mounted optics raises the height of base for the optics as it has a bit of clearance to the dustvover; also it hinders with quick disassembly in cases of Jams (And yes AK's too can jam). So the other solutions are to mount in on top of the gas block, like the EOtechs in the pic above, or on the dust cover as with the clunky BEL reflex sight.
In the setup, depicted above with the BEL sight, i cant figure out why is it mounted so high, at that height you can still shoot, but with a poor cheek weld, I learnt shooting on Lee Enfield SMLE, my NCC CO was a Naik, and knew how to shoot, he taught us to shoot with the comb; same here in the US the people who taught me were very much into iron sights, One of the reasons I rarely use my Semi Auto AKM with a red dot, ad mostly shoot it with it's iron sights and occasionally with a 3-9 scope.
Key take away would be issuing a Foregrip stock set.
Solves all of the cheek rest issues.
I think that can be dealt with factoring in the rifle cant, something that every soldier is encouraged to undertake at the firing range with an EME Armourer to help out in the process.
I believe that the sights are 'zeroed' at 300 yards to factor in (or out) the points as have been highlighted by you above.
Oh, it was meant to imply that it can be ignored, as is insignificant. That is why 'need not be commented upon'.
As for the latter, sorry, misunderstood what you were implying.
Apologies.