Small Arms & Tactical Equipment

[Gautam]

the pistolgrip looks like it can take any kind of aftermarket ar pistolgrips.

Its their design. they use it on all of their guns. Although I am not sure if using the same pistol grip for assault rifles and snipers is a good idea given the difference in grip positions for the two different guns.

the top rail seems to be monolithic, i would love to see it get disassembled.

Me too. Would love some videos. They said they will make a youtube channel and post videos there.

 

[BlackAnt]

yes i know

Its their design. they use it on all of their guns. Although I am not sure if using the same pistol grip for assault rifles and snipers is a good idea given the difference in grip positions for the two different guns.

Me too. Would love some videos. They said they will make a youtube channel and post videos there.

its their own pistol grip, what i am saying is the mounting point looks similar to an ar, i have seem their rifles with two other type of pistolgrips before.

 

[Gautam]

i have seem their rifles with two other type of pistolgrips before.

Those were from AR grips, aftermarket Magpul I think. Their pistol grip mounting mechanism is the same as AR family of rifles.

 

[Gautam]

From D. F. I. :
FAB Defence modified INSAS

Oh god why ?

 

[GuardianRED]

From D. F. I. :
FAB Defence modified INSAS
View attachment 14294
Oh god why ?

Why Not?

 

[Gautam]

Why Not?

The INSAS is going out of service, why modify it now ? The time to upgrade it was around the late 90s and early 2000s, now its too late.

 

[Maximus]

@Maximus

You were right - seems like the collapsible (length-adjustable) stock and 12'o clock rail on handguard were removed upon IA's request:

AK-203 to become organic assault rifle of Indian armed forces | February 2020 Global Defense Security army news industry | Defense Security global news industry army 2020 | Archive News year

"The AK-203 as intended for the Indian Armed Forces features some differences compared to the basic Russian assault rifle: the Indian AK-203 has received a folding buttstock (like that integrated with the AK-74M or AK-103 firearms), upper handguard without a Picatinny rail, and a standard plastic 30-round magazine with no clear window. At the same time, the assault rifle has retained its distinctive slotted muzzle brake. A cleaning rod has been mounted under the weapon’s barrel, in the AK-74M/AK-103 fashion."

Furthermore, no optics or anything as part of kit:

"The first AK-203 will be delivered in the baseline configuration, with IRRPL not planning to conduct any update of the basic configuration"

Utterly disappointing. Cannot fathom why we would request removal of the collapsible stock & top rail on handguard. Not like the the new stock was gauged to be too fragile or anything (considering Russian Army is going for the same stock on AK-12) and not like the rail interferes with anything or changes the sight picture.

View attachment 14278
View attachment 14279

Not only stock,but the whole hand guard of AK 203 have been replaced with the ak 103 hand guard,since the new modular cleaning rod was
stored in the new stock,it has also been replaced by traditional single piece cleaning rod.Apart from these the selector lever and old black polymer mags of ak 103 have been retained.


The only logical conclusion which we can draw from it is,that these steps were done to bring the cost of rifle down as directed by the Indian government. If this is the case then its a sign of things to come,when it comes to infantry modernization .First of all it points
to a *censored*ed up economy,which has forced government to do such cost cuttings,second rest assured there will be no standard reflex sights,vertical fore grip,flash lights,ir laser along with the rifle.Be ready to see an IA jawan lug around basic ak for the next 20 years to come.Not only this ,I am sure that they will also cut corner in sling,instead on the new sling for ak 203 and ak 15 they will make do with either the old design sling on ak 103,or replace it with insas sling just to save some bucks.Not only this ,I am sure a modern Indian soldier would carry less than 100 rounds with him,as army will not issue more than three mags in name of cost cutting.

If this was not directed by government for cost cutting ,but done by Indian army generals ,than this is only going to prove that Indian army is not only third world army in terms of its equipment,but also in its thinking and approach towards future.There is something seriously wrong with the mindset and attitude of senior leadership of IA.

Forget about the rifle,the whole procurement plan was *censored*ed up ,right from the beginning .The choice of three rifle calibers,three different rifle platforms was absurd and foolish to begin with.Then the choice of the rifle,which was done without any formal trials,bidding or even a formal tender is downright scandalous .

This is not the first time Indian army has made such a choice of going for a legacy platform while talking about being prepared for the future.Right from the selection of plain PASGT helmet,when modern ach design with night vision mount and rails were available,to selection of plain bullet proof vest when the future is all about modular vest,to going for igla S,when verba and other modern platforms are available shows the backward thinking of the IA top brass.

Coming back to AK 203,first of all the choice of 7.62x39mm for the whole army is bad,on top of it to further water down the already basic ak 203 is beyond pathetic.It was sole responsibility of IA top brass to take a stand for themselves ,and refuse to such demands.But in this age of boot licking ,I think it is difficult and rare to expect higher ranks to show some spine.



What amaze me is that they have not even left the basic selector lever with extension,how much would have a small metal extension affected the cost of the rifle is beyond me.


Even though Modi has taken some good decisions,most of his decision have been plain bad as far as military procurement is concerned.Announcing AK 203 as the next rifle without any competition,bidding,or be it choosing 36 Rafael over negotiating a good deal for 126 jets are few such examples.


After seeing all this ,I think OFB and insas were well deserved for the Indian army,hope OFB screw them even more with AK 203.

With this version of AK 203 ,Indian army will carry forward its legacy of using SHIT looking rifles.If Insas was an eyesore this rifle is no beauty queen either. Of course things like modular stock,long hand guard,stable rails,common platform,caliber,long range are things which are irrelevant to the Indian(militia) army.On top of that if these fool manage to pay close to 1000 dollar for this rifle ,then it will be an icing on the cake.


Irrespective of how much one would wish for,I don't think this deal will be getting scrapped.Even if the SSS defence rifle proves to be much better in all fronts,even if they offer the rifle for half the price of ak 203,unfortunately I don't see this disaster of a deal written off.Because this rifle has already been marketed by Modi and his team as some masterstroke,it has been publicized beyond limit.Now it has become a ego issue for Modi.Not only this the manufacturing facility at Amethi (Smriti irani) is also one of the main reason why this deal will have to happen ,at any cost .I guess Russians have also sensed this,thus they are trying to draw maximum benefit out of this.

Further if SSS defence rifle have to be selected then it cannot be done without issuing new tender,competitive bidding and formal trials,as other private manufacturers who have done JV for small arms will raise questions. As far as SSS defence is concerned ,the best approach for them would be to forget about IA and focus on CAPF and police departments,there are more realistic chances with them than convincing the Indian army.





Before I end ,I would like to summarize this rifle deal :

1.Legacy platform,you will have to worry even for the basic thing such as stability of the rail.

2. Worst design ,which could have been chosen for TOT.

3.Worst caliber choice for Infantry.

4. Blatant rip off by paying more than 1000 dollars for this.

5. On top of this we will have to be show how indebted we are towards Russia,to sell there shit platform in jacked up prices to us.

6. Shows the malice plaguing our army.

In one word,a SHITSHOW.

It could be because the Ar style buttstock on the ak203 does not use a standard ar buffertube, it has different dimentions hence cannot take any of the standard butts in the market for the standard ar buffertube. The army might also think that the average joe doesnt need the complexity that comes with the adjustibility. I do not agree to this view point but just trying to justify their point of view.

What are you saying ? First of all AK stock does not have buffer tube ,because it has recoil spring for recoil mitigation,the whole design philosophy and mechanism is different from ar,Just like ar 18,SIG mcx,scar H.Further why would an AK need an ar buffer tube,even if you really want one, FAB defense does offer AK stock with buffer tube.Your second point is even more absurd ,the mechanism of length adjustable stock is so simple that even a monkey can do it ,if trained,somehow it seems that you hold an average Indian army infantry jawan IQ ,at a more low standard than a monkey.

Basically ,this decision of army is absurd,stupid and irrational stop trying to justify it .

As far as buffer tube is concerned ,here is your AK 203 with FAB defense aftermarket GL core stock with buffer tube.

Here is your plain akm with aftermarket m4 stock :

 

[Aniruddha]

Could have went with these instead of the shit watered down Ak-203:-

But babus and Army top brass would not get kickbacks from an Indian company for spending on duplex villas, exotic cars and sending their children to study in Oxford, Harvard, Yale.

 

[Gautam]

OFB LMG :

It seems they have chopped that barrel, it looks shorter. Or maybe its just the camera angle.

 

[Deathstar]

We call Pakistani generals as corrupt but i dont think ours are any less. In the end both are cut from the same British cloth.
I feel Pakistani procurement is better than ours with limited resources they have.
We have got unlimited options to choose from ,this leads to confusion and delays.
I hope we sanctioned and embargoed or else foreign import maal lovers tag will never go.
Indians have done the most they could do - elect nationalist government with a thumping majority twice. What more can they do. Alas but even Modi government has been a disappointment.

 

[BlackAnt]

Not only stock,but the whole hand guard of AK 203 have been replaced with the ak 103 hand guard,since the new modular cleaning rod was
stored in the new stock,it has also been replaced by traditional single piece cleaning rod.Apart from these the selector lever and old black polymer mags of ak 103 have been retained.


The only logical conclusion which we can draw from it is,that these steps were done to bring the cost of rifle down as directed by the Indian government. If this is the case then its a sign of things to come,when it comes to infantry modernization .First of all it points
to a *censored*ed up economy,which has forced government to do such cost cuttings,second rest assured there will be no standard reflex sights,vertical fore grip,flash lights,ir laser along with the rifle.Be ready to see an IA jawan lug around basic ak for the next 20 years to come.Not only this ,I am sure that they will also cut corner in sling,instead on the new sling for ak 203 and ak 15 they will make do with either the old design sling on ak 103,or replace it with insas sling just to save some bucks.Not only this ,I am sure a modern Indian soldier would carry less than 100 rounds with him,as army will not issue more than three mags in name of cost cutting.

If this was not directed by government for cost cutting ,but done by Indian army generals ,than this is only going to prove that Indian army is not only third world army in terms of its equipment,but also in its thinking and approach towards future.There is something seriously wrong with the mindset and attitude of senior leadership of IA.

Forget about the rifle,the whole procurement plan was *censored*ed up ,right from the beginning .The choice of three rifle calibers,three different rifle platforms was absurd and foolish to begin with.Then the choice of the rifle,which was done without any formal trials,bidding or even a formal tender is downright scandalous .

This is not the first time Indian army has made such a choice of going for a legacy platform while talking about being prepared for the future.Right from the selection of plain PASGT helmet,when modern ach design with night vision mount and rails were available,to selection of plain bullet proof vest when the future is all about modular vest,to going for igla S,when verba and other modern platforms are available shows the backward thinking of the IA top brass.

Coming back to AK 203,first of all the choice of 7.62x39mm for the whole army is bad,on top of it to further water down the already basic ak 203 is beyond pathetic.It was sole responsibility of IA top brass to take a stand for themselves ,and refuse to such demands.But in this age of boot licking ,I think it is difficult and rare to expect higher ranks to show some spine.



What amaze me is that they have not even left the basic selector lever with extension,how much would have a small metal extension affected the cost of the rifle is beyond me.


Even though Modi has taken some good decisions,most of his decision have been plain bad as far as military procurement is concerned.Announcing AK 203 as the next rifle without any competition,bidding,or be it choosing 36 Rafael over negotiating a good deal for 126 jets are few such examples.


After seeing all this ,I think OFB and insas were well deserved for the Indian army,hope OFB screw them even more with AK 203.

With this version of AK 203 ,Indian army will carry forward its legacy of using SHIT looking rifles.If Insas was an eyesore this rifle is no beauty queen either. Of course things like modular stock,long hand guard,stable rails,common platform,caliber,long range are things which are irrelevant to the Indian(militia) army.On top of that if these fool manage to pay close to 1000 dollar for this rifle ,then it will be an icing on the cake.


Irrespective of how much one would wish for,I don't think this deal will be getting scrapped.Even if the SSS defence rifle proves to be much better in all fronts,even if they offer the rifle for half the price of ak 203,unfortunately I don't see this disaster of a deal written off.Because this rifle has already been marketed by Modi and his team as some masterstroke,it has been publicized beyond limit.Now it has become a ego issue for Modi.Not only this the manufacturing facility at Amethi (Smriti irani) is also one of the main reason why this deal will have to happen ,at any cost .I guess Russians have also sensed this,thus they are trying to draw maximum benefit out of this.

Further if SSS defence rifle have to be selected then it cannot be done without issuing new tender,competitive bidding and formal trials,as other private manufacturers who have done JV for small arms will raise questions. As far as SSS defence is concerned ,the best approach for them would be to forget about IA and focus on CAPF and police departments,there are more realistic chances with them than convincing the Indian army.





Before I end ,I would like to summarize this rifle deal :

1.Legacy platform,you will have to worry even for the basic thing such as stability of the rail.

2. Worst design ,which could have been chosen for TOT.

3.Worst caliber choice for Infantry.

4. Blatant rip off by paying more than 1000 dollars for this.

5. On top of this we will have to be show how indebted we are towards Russia,to sell there shit platform in jacked up prices to us.

6. Shows the malice plaguing our army.

In one word,a SHITSHOW.






What are you saying ? First of all AK stock does not have buffer tube ,because it has recoil spring for recoil mitigation,the whole design philosophy and mechanism is different from ar,Just like ar 18,SIG mcx,scar H.Further why would an AK need an ar buffer tube,even if you really want one, FAB defense does offer AK stock with buffer tube.Your second point is even more absurd ,the mechanism of length adjustable stock is so simple that even a monkey can do it ,if trained,somehow it seems that you hold an average Indian army infantry jawan IQ ,at a more low standard than a monkey.

Basically ,this decision of army is absurd,stupid and irrational stop trying to justify it .

As far as buffer tube is concerned ,here is your AK 203 with FAB defense aftermarket GL core stock with buffer tube.

View attachment 14298
View attachment 14299

Here is your plain akm with aftermarket m4 stock :
View attachment 14300

first of all i dont appreciate the name calling, and i did say i do not agree with their point of view.
Mind your language. You care more about looks than effectiveness and are very naive.

 

[BlackAnt]

Not only stock,but the whole hand guard of AK 203 have been replaced with the ak 103 hand guard,since the new modular cleaning rod was
stored in the new stock,it has also been replaced by traditional single piece cleaning rod.Apart from these the selector lever and old black polymer mags of ak 103 have been retained.


The only logical conclusion which we can draw from it is,that these steps were done to bring the cost of rifle down as directed by the Indian government. If this is the case then its a sign of things to come,when it comes to infantry modernization .First of all it points
to a *censored*ed up economy,which has forced government to do such cost cuttings,second rest assured there will be no standard reflex sights,vertical fore grip,flash lights,ir laser along with the rifle.Be ready to see an IA jawan lug around basic ak for the next 20 years to come.Not only this ,I am sure that they will also cut corner in sling,instead on the new sling for ak 203 and ak 15 they will make do with either the old design sling on ak 103,or replace it with insas sling just to save some bucks.Not only this ,I am sure a modern Indian soldier would carry less than 100 rounds with him,as army will not issue more than three mags in name of cost cutting.

If this was not directed by government for cost cutting ,but done by Indian army generals ,than this is only going to prove that Indian army is not only third world army in terms of its equipment,but also in its thinking and approach towards future.There is something seriously wrong with the mindset and attitude of senior leadership of IA.

Forget about the rifle,the whole procurement plan was *censored*ed up ,right from the beginning .The choice of three rifle calibers,three different rifle platforms was absurd and foolish to begin with.Then the choice of the rifle,which was done without any formal trials,bidding or even a formal tender is downright scandalous .

This is not the first time Indian army has made such a choice of going for a legacy platform while talking about being prepared for the future.Right from the selection of plain PASGT helmet,when modern ach design with night vision mount and rails were available,to selection of plain bullet proof vest when the future is all about modular vest,to going for igla S,when verba and other modern platforms are available shows the backward thinking of the IA top brass.

Coming back to AK 203,first of all the choice of 7.62x39mm for the whole army is bad,on top of it to further water down the already basic ak 203 is beyond pathetic.It was sole responsibility of IA top brass to take a stand for themselves ,and refuse to such demands.But in this age of boot licking ,I think it is difficult and rare to expect higher ranks to show some spine.



What amaze me is that they have not even left the basic selector lever with extension,how much would have a small metal extension affected the cost of the rifle is beyond me.


Even though Modi has taken some good decisions,most of his decision have been plain bad as far as military procurement is concerned.Announcing AK 203 as the next rifle without any competition,bidding,or be it choosing 36 Rafael over negotiating a good deal for 126 jets are few such examples.


After seeing all this ,I think OFB and insas were well deserved for the Indian army,hope OFB screw them even more with AK 203.

With this version of AK 203 ,Indian army will carry forward its legacy of using SHIT looking rifles.If Insas was an eyesore this rifle is no beauty queen either. Of course things like modular stock,long hand guard,stable rails,common platform,caliber,long range are things which are irrelevant to the Indian(militia) army.On top of that if these fool manage to pay close to 1000 dollar for this rifle ,then it will be an icing on the cake.


Irrespective of how much one would wish for,I don't think this deal will be getting scrapped.Even if the SSS defence rifle proves to be much better in all fronts,even if they offer the rifle for half the price of ak 203,unfortunately I don't see this disaster of a deal written off.Because this rifle has already been marketed by Modi and his team as some masterstroke,it has been publicized beyond limit.Now it has become a ego issue for Modi.Not only this the manufacturing facility at Amethi (Smriti irani) is also one of the main reason why this deal will have to happen ,at any cost .I guess Russians have also sensed this,thus they are trying to draw maximum benefit out of this.

Further if SSS defence rifle have to be selected then it cannot be done without issuing new tender,competitive bidding and formal trials,as other private manufacturers who have done JV for small arms will raise questions. As far as SSS defence is concerned ,the best approach for them would be to forget about IA and focus on CAPF and police departments,there are more realistic chances with them than convincing the Indian army.





Before I end ,I would like to summarize this rifle deal :

1.Legacy platform,you will have to worry even for the basic thing such as stability of the rail.

2. Worst design ,which could have been chosen for TOT.

3.Worst caliber choice for Infantry.

4. Blatant rip off by paying more than 1000 dollars for this.

5. On top of this we will have to be show how indebted we are towards Russia,to sell there shit platform in jacked up prices to us.

6. Shows the malice plaguing our army.

In one word,a SHITSHOW.






What are you saying ? First of all AK stock does not have buffer tube ,because it has recoil spring for recoil mitigation,the whole design philosophy and mechanism is different from ar,Just like ar 18,SIG mcx,scar H.Further why would an AK need an ar buffer tube,even if you really want one, FAB defense does offer AK stock with buffer tube.Your second point is even more absurd ,the mechanism of length adjustable stock is so simple that even a monkey can do it ,if trained,somehow it seems that you hold an average Indian army infantry jawan IQ ,at a more low standard than a monkey.

Basically ,this decision of army is absurd,stupid and irrational stop trying to justify it .

As far as buffer tube is concerned ,here is your AK 203 with FAB defense aftermarket GL core stock with buffer tube.

View attachment 14298
View attachment 14299

Here is your plain akm with aftermarket m4 stock :
View attachment 14300

i never said an ak needs a buffer tube, i was saying if they made the tube the same diameter of the ar buffertube, they could have adopted any kind of aftermarket ar stocks available out there.

 

[GuardianRED]

The INSAS is going out of service, why modify it now ? The time to upgrade it was around the late 90s and early 2000s, now its too late.

They are not going out of service immediately - so anything interim (like existing Aks) would be welcomed no?

 

[Gautam]

They are not going out of service immediately - so anything interim (like existing Aks) would be welcomed no?

They can be used by police too. There is a market indeed. I just want it out of military usage. You are right it won't happen quickly.

 

[Maximus]

first of all i dont appreciate the name calling, and i did say i do not agree with their point of view.Mind your language. You care more about looks than effectiveness and are very naive.

I am passionate about small arms,as well our army.I don't claim to be the know it all,however I know enough to realize that our Infantry solider could do much better than this.If calling spade a spade is wrong ,then I am wrong ,would like to remain wrong.

If you read my previous post I am always praise for AK 103,I like it for its simplicity and reliability. However it is a legacy platform ,and I feel we should look at a more modern platform for our future needs.stability of the railed dust cover,ability to retain zero after frequent disassembly ,removable gas tube,hard trigger,not so good iron sight (for distance),stamped receiver,short hand guard,over heating issues,reciprocating charging handle,hard recoil,sloped stock,bad ergonomics are few reasons on why I think this is not a rifle platform fit for our future needs.

Even though the Russians had done some modifications to bring the rifle to modern standard,I don't think these were enough.There are some fundamental issue with the rifle,which will remain due to the limitations in its design.

I want nothing but best for our soldiers, they are one who will do the fighting on ground,this is the least they deserve from the country.Now first Indian generals made a mess of the procurement process,then they choose 7.62x39mm as the standard issue caliber (wrong choice imo).If this was not enough they reversed the what so ever effort the Russian have put in to make the rifle more soldier friendly.On top of it they choose the rifle without any competition,bidding or trials .If all this was not enough,there are reports that Russian are charging around 1100 dollar for per rifle from us,and they are not satisfied with it and haggling for more.


What's not to like or praise here ,right.They are way overpaying for TOT of a legacy design,which will not help in our future small arms design and development. This government went out of the way to promote make in India,manufacturing in India and what not ,which prompted many Indian private firms to set up a JV for small arm manufacturing ,but when it needed to walk the talk this government gave a walkover to the ofb without even giving a legitimate chance for these Indian companies to compete.

I feel we could have got a better rifle,at better price which would have not only served our soldiers well,but would have bring in necessary know how for modernization of our small arms manufacturing.


Regarding my comment on looks,I feel ,the rifle looks like "shit" ,for the lack of a better word to describe it.I personally believe a rifle designing is as much as art ,as much it is science.You have to craft a rifle ,rather than assembling some pieces to work together .However this is my believe,which I am free to express.However do note when I talk about beauty,it is not only aesthetics,but also ergonomics.

To quote Mikhail Kalashnikov " weapons must be beautiful in order to be pleasant to pick up ".


P.S I am not proud on use of foul words by me,but at such times the name calling is necessary. Talking about name ,it is rich coming from some one with profile name of "Black ANUS " .

i never said an ak needs a buffer tube, i was saying if they made the tube the same diameter of the ar buffertube, they could have adopted any kind of aftermarket ar stocks available out there.

Sorry for misinterpreting your post,however If I understand it now,you meant to say that IA top brass would have preferred to go for any other ar style stock over the traditional side folder stock of ak,if the design would have allowed them.If this is right ,then again you are wrong.First of all the review on the m4 stlye stock of ak 203 were good,it is deemed to be solid and stable,however there were few complain ,regarding the length of extension of the stock,which could have been a bit longer and the absence of a good cheek rest.Still this was a step up from traditional ak stock ,because it was adjustable in length,it could accommodate the cleaning kit,and it was a straight line stock over a slanted traditional stock.A straight line stock help better control of recoil and keep rifle straight.However ,I must mention that the stock is not in line with the barrel but slightly below it,because an inline stock or a stock above it would not allow proper iron sight picture when the rifle is shouldered.

Let's assume that IA top brass did not like that stock for some reason ,then instead of reverting back to the old stock they had the option of using GL core stock ,which is one of the best aftermarket stock as per user reviews.Beside these there were plethora of after market ak stock option available.

The point to note is that we are not buying some old rifles ,but brand new manufactured ones,if they don't like anything ,they have the option to optimize it as per their choice at the time of production.Just like the "ar style buffer tube " you speak of.

You have also said that IA would have dropped the m4 type stock,to avoid the complexities of a length adjustable stock for an average infantry soldier.I don't know what is your perception but today an Infantry jawan is well educated,smart ,informed and quick learner.Further advent of technology in war fighting is inevitable as we go ahead in time.The use of technology by an infantry jawan is the only way forward,be it air burst grenade,various optics,laser range finder,navigation,communication,NVG and other type of equipment being used by a foot soldier.Ever heard of FINSAS launched by INDIAN ARMY :

Stop making excues when there are none.BTW as per you they dropped the length adjustable stock to avoid the complexities for an average jawan.I would be interested to know why have they dropped the new reinforced mags,with windows and the selector lever with extension for the index finger.

If you ask me ,what I would have preferred ,then it would have been a modern ,light weight,modular design which would compete and win in competitive trials and bidding chambered in 6.5 Grendel or any other better caliber which offer the optimum balance among recoil ,take down power and range.

A 6.5 Grendel AR :

 

[Maximus]

ARDE carbine

 

[Killbot]

first of all i dont appreciate the name calling, and i did say i do not agree with their point of view.
Mind your language. You care more about looks than effectiveness and are very naive.

How effective do you think a vanilla AK is gonna be for the next 2 decades?
And coming to aesthetics, do you want our army looking like some African militia for another 20 years.
The AK-203 was a bullshit choice to begin with, but the shit our army is gonna wield for the next 20 years takes bullshit to a whole new level...

 

[rone]

In simple conclusion I can say its Russia's business might India's negotiations failure, we in take 203 in vanilla form and after 10 years war doctrine and technology changes so we forced to use an upgrades they proposed to us then we have to pay extra for that upgrades even it was intended on original ak203, like always gov make a lot on talk's when come to action nothing on table, highly disappointing

 

[Sulla84]

How effective do you think a vanilla AK is gonna be for the next 2 decades?
And coming to aesthetics, do you want our army looking like some African militia for another 20 years.
The AK-203 was a bullshit choice to begin with, but the shit our army is gonna wield for the next 20 years takes bullshit to a whole new level...

What if IA upgrades all basic AK 203, with mods from FAB defense.. or some Indian companies... so as to avoid extra cost of TOT to Russia .. Any chance of this happening... ?

 

[Maximus]

I asked few questions to Vladimir onokoy (man in the photo)of Kalashnikov concern,here are my questions and his answers :

My Questions :

1 I would like to ask you,on whose direction and why were the changes made on India bound AK 203,visible at defexpo.

2.Were there any formal trials conducted of AK 203 in India.

3.Why Indian delegation opted for AK 203 over AK 15.

4. Will you be transferring the metallurgy under TOT.

5. Is Saudi Arabia opting for production of Russian rifles,if yes,then which model.

6 .Will you be selling rifles to Pakistan also,if yes,then which models.

7. My guess is that Indian side asked for the changes,due to cost issues.Is it right or were there any issues related to rifle ergonomics. Your take on it,have they done the right thing as far as rifle ergonomics is concerned.

8. The railed dust cover on ak 203 is stable and able to hold zero.Will it remain the same few years down in service ,after field abuse and heavy use.



His answers :

1. Changes were requested by Indian side.

2. Trials of 100 series were conducted by me in Ishapor in 2017. 200 series is internally the same.

3. I would advice to ask Indian delegation about it, but I think they made a right choice.

4. No comment

5. No comment

6. No comment

7. It is up to the customer to make decisions based on economic situation . As a shooter, I would certainly prefer a standard 203.

8.So far all the testing did not uncover any issues.


P.S IMO Vladimir onokoy not only work in small arms industry,but is very passionate about it.Not only he has vast experience under his belt,by participating in various trials across the globe ,but he is also well versed in dealing with various government procurement agencies around the world.This man would be a great asset to SSS defence in development of their small arms ,as well as marketing and dealing with various agencies(potential customers)across the world.