A good chance
But not by IA as a whole... Afaik upgraded ones are requested by respective battalion COs. I could be wrong...
Small Arms & Tactical Equipment
- Thread starter Parthu
- Start date
But not by IA as a whole... Afaik upgraded ones are requested by respective battalion COs. I could be wrong...
Everybody, we know SSS p72 is doomed in Indian Army market. Let’s stop this discussion; it is getting way too depressing...
I know this is what this thread is meant for, but shit AK is what’s next for the Indian army. And for the next 20 years...
I know this is what this thread is meant for, but shit AK is what’s next for the Indian army. And for the next 20 years...
Hopefully, SSS Defence is able to make a sale to some foreign firm (preferbly a NATO country) just like how IA found out about Tonbo
Also, P72 rifles could be pitched to Special Forces, Paramilitary, State police spec ops & counter-terrorist units. Infact, someone on this thread stated it was being tested by NSG & IA. Even if IA decides to procure a few thousand units...should be a good starter
I believe that OFB should start work on 338 LMG like SIG has achieved 338 LMG
It has a range of 1.8 KM
We can accomplish it in 5 years
It has a range of 1.8 KM
We can accomplish it in 5 years
Yeah, after 5 years and gobbling up a major chunk of the allocated funds...they'd come up with a cheap chinese looking toy that you find in village fairs. You should try looking closely at the finish of JVPC or Amogh, pathetic to say the least and they charge a premium for it
I'm just copy-pasting one of my posts from another forum:
"
....the Tavor may have been cutting edge back in early 2000s when we bought them but is no longer today (at least not the version our military SFs are using which is the basic TAR-21).
Given we are one of the first (if not the first) real-world users which put the Tavor through the paces in many obverse environments (desert, tropical jungles, extremely high-altitude tundra etc.), our inputs are likely to have been invaluable to IWI in designing and developing further iterations of the Tavor like the X-95, SAR-21 etc.
Unfortunately, forces under MoD haven't standardized on any of these improved variants. So we paid the price for going with a new, untested platform but got none of the reward.
The Tavor as it exists with Paras isn't the best gun around. Majority of SOF units the world over (including Israeli ones like Sayeret Matkal, Shayatet 13 or Police units like Yamam) would much prefer an AR-15 platform. The fact that many Paras still prefer to carry M4s (which are even older than TAR-21s) speaks volumes.
The TAR-21 lacks primarily in three areas:
- Bullpup design & position of ejection port makes transition shooting uncomfortable, difficult. It does have design features meant to deflect the casings, but the gases still make it not an ideal platform for those who are big on transitions especially in CQC.
- Not ideal to suppress. Also, exacerbates the already-present problem of gases from ejection port. New Tavor 7 incorporates a 4-position gas regulator to deal with the issue but this isn't on 5.56 TAR-21.
- Not very customizable. Yes, it can still take a day-night sight combo but due to lack of full-length rail they have to go with a "one size fits all" approach. Also, the options are extremely limited. No quad-rail on the handguard so use of stability-enhancing grips isn't possible either (something which even non-SF units like RR are routinely using nowadays).
I would much prefer the SFs to adopt a modern AR-15 platform like Daniel Defense MK18 which has excellent reliability (equal if not better than Tavor), and also acquits itself exceptionally well in all the areas where TAR-21 comes up short, as well.
But it appears we are intent on the FN SCAR...fine. I just hope the decision was made after studying inputs from units who have been using that platform (like SG, SFF, SPG etc.) and not just because its considered a bling rifle (like the Tavor was back in the day, and still is, in a way).
Personally, I don't think SCAR can match up to the raw functionality (and reputation) of a platform like the MK18."
I'm just copy-pasting one of my posts from another forum:
"
....the Tavor may have been cutting edge back in early 2000s when we bought them but is no longer today (at least not the version our military SFs are using which is the basic TAR-21).
Given we are one of the first (if not the first) real-world users which put the Tavor through the paces in many obverse environments (desert, tropical jungles, extremely high-altitude tundra etc.), our inputs are likely to have been invaluable to IWI in designing and developing further iterations of the Tavor like the X-95, SAR-21 etc.
Unfortunately, forces under MoD haven't standardized on any of these improved variants. So we paid the price for going with a new, untested platform but got none of the reward.
The Tavor as it exists with Paras isn't the best gun around. Majority of SOF units the world over (including Israeli ones like Sayeret Matkal, Shayatet 13 or Police units like Yamam) would much prefer an AR-15 platform. The fact that many Paras still prefer to carry M4s (which are even older than TAR-21s) speaks volumes.
The TAR-21 lacks primarily in three areas:
Some of these issues were addressed in subsequent iterations of the Tavor but like I said, our SFs haven't adopted any of them. Probably thanks to procurement lethargy. Buying weapons for an entire regiment involves hundreds of crores so not something that could be done at unit-level either.
- Bullpup design & position of ejection port makes transition shooting uncomfortable, difficult. It does have design features meant to deflect the casings, but the gases still make it not an ideal platform for those who are big on transitions especially in CQC.
- Not ideal to suppress. Also, exacerbates the already-present problem of gases from ejection port. New Tavor 7 incorporates a 4-position gas regulator to deal with the issue but this isn't on 5.56 TAR-21.
- Not very customizable. Yes, it can still take a day-night sight combo but due to lack of full-length rail they have to go with a "one size fits all" approach. Also, the options are extremely limited. No quad-rail on the handguard so use of stability-enhancing grips isn't possible either (something which even non-SF units like RR are routinely using nowadays).
I would much prefer the SFs to adopt a modern AR-15 platform like Daniel Defense MK18 which has excellent reliability (equal if not better than Tavor), and also acquits itself exceptionally well in all the areas where TAR-21 comes up short, as well.
But it appears we are intent on the FN SCAR...fine. I just hope the decision was made after studying inputs from units who have been using that platform (like SG, SFF, SPG etc.) and not just because its considered a bling rifle (like the Tavor was back in the day, and still is, in a way).
Personally, I don't think SCAR can match up to the raw functionality (and reputation) of a platform like the MK18."
I live in the US, so have the ability to pick from a wide variety of rifles. I have thoroughly enjoyed my AKM, and I was looking to pick up a new rifle in 5.56 Nato. I thoroughly researched and tried rifles like Tavor Tar21, Steyr Aug, Ar15, RDB; and ended up selecting the AR15 platform. After using and training on it, I ended up building another AR15 pistol in 10.5", an Ar15 in 6.5grendel in 18" barrel and an AR10 in 308 with 20" barrel. That's how effective, intuitive, and cost-effective the platform really is.
Before the AR15 platform, I used to think AKM is the only gun I would ever pick up to save my life (If I ever had to); today I would be fine picking up either.
The modularity, flexibility, and upgrades that an AR15 platform offers are unparalleled; but then the AKM is an equally valuable rifle with its own reliability and reproducibility. Also, both of these are very affordable platforms and thus make a lot of sense for military applications, you can literally buy 4 of either of these on a military contract compared to the Tavor/X95, Scar, Bren, Aug.
Also IWI Tavor is not much accuracte after about 400 yards.I'm just copy-pasting one of my posts from another forum:
"
....the Tavor may have been cutting edge back in early 2000s when we bought them but is no longer today (at least not the version our military SFs are using which is the basic TAR-21).
Given we are one of the first (if not the first) real-world users which put the Tavor through the paces in many obverse environments (desert, tropical jungles, extremely high-altitude tundra etc.), our inputs are likely to have been invaluable to IWI in designing and developing further iterations of the Tavor like the X-95, SAR-21 etc.
Unfortunately, forces under MoD haven't standardized on any of these improved variants. So we paid the price for going with a new, untested platform but got none of the reward.
The Tavor as it exists with Paras isn't the best gun around. Majority of SOF units the world over (including Israeli ones like Sayeret Matkal, Shayatet 13 or Police units like Yamam) would much prefer an AR-15 platform. The fact that many Paras still prefer to carry M4s (which are even older than TAR-21s) speaks volumes.
The TAR-21 lacks primarily in three areas:
Some of these issues were addressed in subsequent iterations of the Tavor but like I said, our SFs haven't adopted any of them. Probably thanks to procurement lethargy. Buying weapons for an entire regiment involves hundreds of crores so not something that could be done at unit-level either.
- Bullpup design & position of ejection port makes transition shooting uncomfortable, difficult. It does have design features meant to deflect the casings, but the gases still make it not an ideal platform for those who are big on transitions especially in CQC.
- Not ideal to suppress. Also, exacerbates the already-present problem of gases from ejection port. New Tavor 7 incorporates a 4-position gas regulator to deal with the issue but this isn't on 5.56 TAR-21.
- Not very customizable. Yes, it can still take a day-night sight combo but due to lack of full-length rail they have to go with a "one size fits all" approach. Also, the options are extremely limited. No quad-rail on the handguard so use of stability-enhancing grips isn't possible either (something which even non-SF units like RR are routinely using nowadays).
I would much prefer the SFs to adopt a modern AR-15 platform like Daniel Defense MK18 which has excellent reliability (equal if not better than Tavor), and also acquits itself exceptionally well in all the areas where TAR-21 comes up short, as well.
But it appears we are intent on the FN SCAR...fine. I just hope the decision was made after studying inputs from units who have been using that platform (like SG, SFF, SPG etc.) and not just because its considered a bling rifle (like the Tavor was back in the day, and still is, in a way).
Personally, I don't think SCAR can match up to the raw functionality (and reputation) of a platform like the MK18."
Self-reliance in small arms manufacturing fundamentally necessary for India: CISC R Hari Kumar
Vice Admiral R Hari Kumar, CISC expressed hope that the defence manufacturing would be more competitive with private companies in the fray, and said the ongoing reforms in defence procurement process should give an opportunity to the "OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) to partner with the Indian companies to enter this (small arms) market".
PTI | Last Updated: Feb 20, 2020, 02.06 PM IST
NEW DELHI: India needs to be self-reliant in manufacturing small arms, even as the armed forces' urgent requirements are being currently met through imports, Vice Admiral R Hari Kumar, Chief of Integrated Defence Staff to the Chairman Chief of Staffs Committee (CISC), said on Thursday.
He expressed hope that the defence manufacturing would be more competitive with private companies in the fray, and said the ongoing reforms in defence procurement process should give an opportunity to the "OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) to partner with the Indian companies to enter this (small arms) market".
"While we have imports taking place to meet our current and urgent requirements, self-reliance in this sector is fundamentally necessary for the nation in the long run. It is essential that the basic weapons are manufactured here," Kumar said addressing the International Conference on Small Arms here.
"To modernize the small arms inventory, the DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) is also developing a new assault rifle with the ammunition being developed by the ARDE (Armament Research and Development Establishment) and we hope that this would be ready for trial soon," he noted.
A case for fast-track procurement of assault rifle for the frontline troops is in progress, he said, adding at the same time, a "major development" is the joint venture with Russia with the production of 6.7 lakh AK-203 rifles in Amethi.
"We need to achieve self-reliance in this basic military capability to provide the frontline troops with contemporary weapons. We need to make this happen for the Make in India initiative as articulated by our honourable prime minister," Kumar stated.
Self-reliance in small arms manufacturing fundamentally necessary for India: CISC R Hari Kumar
Vice Admiral R Hari Kumar, CISC expressed hope that the defence manufacturing would be more competitive with private companies in the fray, and said the ongoing reforms in defence procurement process should give an opportunity to the "OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) to partner with the Indian companies to enter this (small arms) market".
PTI | Last Updated: Feb 20, 2020, 02.06 PM IST
NEW DELHI: India needs to be self-reliant in manufacturing small arms, even as the armed forces' urgent requirements are being currently met through imports, Vice Admiral R Hari Kumar, Chief of Integrated Defence Staff to the Chairman Chief of Staffs Committee (CISC), said on Thursday.
He expressed hope that the defence manufacturing would be more competitive with private companies in the fray, and said the ongoing reforms in defence procurement process should give an opportunity to the "OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) to partner with the Indian companies to enter this (small arms) market".
"While we have imports taking place to meet our current and urgent requirements, self-reliance in this sector is fundamentally necessary for the nation in the long run. It is essential that the basic weapons are manufactured here," Kumar said addressing the International Conference on Small Arms here.
"To modernize the small arms inventory, the DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) is also developing a new assault rifle with the ammunition being developed by the ARDE (Armament Research and Development Establishment) and we hope that this would be ready for trial soon," he noted.
A case for fast-track procurement of assault rifle for the frontline troops is in progress, he said, adding at the same time, a "major development" is the joint venture with Russia with the production of 6.7 lakh AK-203 rifles in Amethi.
"We need to achieve self-reliance in this basic military capability to provide the frontline troops with contemporary weapons. We need to make this happen for the Make in India initiative as articulated by our honourable prime minister," Kumar stated.
Self-reliance in small arms manufacturing fundamentally necessary for India: CISC R Hari Kumar
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Oh God the trigger guard.
Armasen Tactical's vest :
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Tactical belt :
View attachment 14390
Camel pack :
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For Assam Rifles , 7.62X 51 is good enough
They hunt terrorists in Forests
This caliber has an effective Range of 800 metres
Yep.
The OFB gun has an effective range of 800 m not the caliber. The SSS Defence fellows were getting over a kilometer of effective range with their sniper using the same caliber. Many international gun manufacturer have guns in that caliber with over a kilometer of range too.
If you read on the Net., You will find that
Maximum Range is different from effective Range
This Bullet loses energy after 800 metres and drops down in its trajectory so it will miss the target
That is why Bigger Calibers like 338 and 50 Calibre were created for Defence forces
Bigger calibers have more energy
They dont drop like a stone
That's true. But the definition of effective range is a bit iffy to me. For example a 7.62x39R starts dropping beyond 350 m range and yet we've had cases in Kashmir where Army specs ops used AKs with thermal sights to get clean headshots at over 500 m. A skilled operator can compensate for the drop pretty accurately while an inexperienced shooter fails to make a hit.
I can bet that this 338 LMG will be the Next Demand of our Army after 5 years
So why not start work right now
Right now our forces use Bren and INSAS LMG ie 7.62 X 51
This 338 LMG will Kill every terrorist till
1.5 KM , So it will be very useful both on LOC and for SF --- Paras
That is the effect of Cold and Rarefied air
Ie air at high altitudes with low humidity
In hot humid climates of North.East
Air Resistance will be high
There are some indications that the US is pushing India to be a part of the LSAT program under the DTTI. All depends on how we respond.