Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
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I saw tweets saying 140 would be upgraded but the upgrades would commence in 2027 as sub systems were either in advanced stages of development or being tested . No news about whether we'd be going in for a new engine.
Read those tweets, at budget of 4 billion $ .
Seems cheaper.. Because of indigenous upgrade or no extensive upgrade s?
At approx cost of 30 million $ per aircraft, engine may not be upgraded.
We upgraded mirage 2000 with 50 millions per aircraft decade back without engine upgrades.
All indigenous. The Russians won't like it but they don't have a choice in the matter. No clue about the engines. But at 30 m USD you can for in 2 engines per plane . Probably the Russians would try to push it threatening assent for certifying indigenous sub systems on MKIs only if we consent to refit new engines. Let's see how things pan out.
Any western system will come at minimum twice the price of a Russian system be it upgrades or a fresh purchase.
Footage of the Su30 landing and taxiing at Veer Guardian 2023. (Video is in English)
New engines would be required to power all the electronics in MKI MLU. Whether they are AL-41F-1S or just heavily upgraded AL-31FP is yet to be seen(decided). Having said that 117S is already a heavily upgraded AL-31FP, so...
I think the plan is to replace all Russian/Israeli/French systems with indigenous ones. Most of the blue-print is already ready.
Also, as per some twitter reports, they are going to replace the metal skin of Su-30MKI with composite ones. It shall reduce weight plus radar signature.
Radar, avionics, cockpit.
Both engines and composite skin too
All this under 30 million $ ?
Something is not adding up.
But i too wish for it.
India to modernize Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter fleet with $4 billion program
BYVALIUS VENCKUNAS 2023-01-26
Venkat Mangudi / Wikipedia
Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is going to request $4 billion from the Indian Ministry of Defense to upgrade the country’s fleet of Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter jets, Indian media reports. The upgrade – dubbed Super Sukhoi – has been announced in 2021. However, it has been hanging in the balance since the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine. A revamped upgrade program is now expected to be approved by the Indian government, several Indian news websites report.
Earlier reports suggest that the program was reoriented towards wider employment of domestic aerospace companies.
New electronics
The upgrades mostly concern the jets’ avionics and sensor systems. Notably, the slotted planar array radar, which dates back to the 1980s, is bound to be replaced by a Uttam MK3 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, manufactured by HAL.The radar is to be complimented by a new domestically-manufactured infrared search and track (IRST) system, although its advantages over the original OLS-30 system remain unannounced.
A modernized cockpit with new displays is also going to be installed, in addition to a new digital flight control computer (DFCC).
The weaponry is also to be upgraded with the ability to carry an expanded range of domestically-manufactured air-to-air missiles, cruise missiles and sensor pods. 150 out of 260 Su-30MKIs operated by the Indian Air Force’ are expected to undergo the upgrade program, which is planned to start in 2024 and deliver the first upgraded aircraft by 2025.
India’s most numerous jet
The Su-30MKI is a fourth-generation fighter jet designed as an India-specific variant of the Sukhoi Su-30, a further development of the Soviet-era Su-27. 50 of India’s Su-30MKIs have been manufactured in Russia, while the rest were built by HAL under license.Since deliveries ended in 2018, the Su-30MKI remained Indian Air Force’s most numerous combat aircraft, serving alongside smaller fleets of Mirage 2000s, MiG-29s and MiG-21s. In 2019, India started receiving its most modern aircraft yet, the Dassault Rafale. Production of the Su-30MKI was stopped, and plans to upgrade the aircraft to make it competitive against 4.5 generation jets, such as China’s Shenyang J-16 started.
There was never an upgrade program before. Super upgrade was marketed by Sukhoi, never considered.India to modernize Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter fleet with $4 billion program
BYVALIUS VENCKUNAS 2023-01-26
Venkat Mangudi / Wikipedia
Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is going to request $4 billion from the Indian Ministry of Defense to upgrade the country’s fleet of Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter jets, Indian media reports. The upgrade – dubbed Super Sukhoi – has been announced in 2021. However, it has been hanging in the balance since the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine. A revamped upgrade program is now expected to be approved by the Indian government, several Indian news websites report.
Earlier reports suggest that the program was reoriented towards wider employment of domestic aerospace companies.
New electronics
The upgrades mostly concern the jets’ avionics and sensor systems. Notably, the slotted planar array radar, which dates back to the 1980s, is bound to be replaced by a Uttam MK3 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, manufactured by HAL.
The radar is to be complimented by a new domestically-manufactured infrared search and track (IRST) system, although its advantages over the original OLS-30 system remain unannounced.
A modernized cockpit with new displays is also going to be installed, in addition to a new digital flight control computer (DFCC).
The weaponry is also to be upgraded with the ability to carry an expanded range of domestically-manufactured air-to-air missiles, cruise missiles and sensor pods. 150 out of 260 Su-30MKIs operated by the Indian Air Force’ are expected to undergo the upgrade program, which is planned to start in 2024 and deliver the first upgraded aircraft by 2025.
India’s most numerous jet
The Su-30MKI is a fourth-generation fighter jet designed as an India-specific variant of the Sukhoi Su-30, a further development of the Soviet-era Su-27. 50 of India’s Su-30MKIs have been manufactured in Russia, while the rest were built by HAL under license.
Since deliveries ended in 2018, the Su-30MKI remained Indian Air Force’s most numerous combat aircraft, serving alongside smaller fleets of Mirage 2000s, MiG-29s and MiG-21s. In 2019, India started receiving its most modern aircraft yet, the Dassault Rafale. Production of the Su-30MKI was stopped, and plans to upgrade the aircraft to make it competitive against 4.5 generation jets, such as China’s Shenyang J-16 started.
Number of airframes to be upgraded is 84. So, around ~$45 million per airframe makes sense. Currently, overhaul itself costs $20-25 million.
Here is the press conference where Air Chief first mentions the upgrade program. Around 26:00 min
Always try to depend to original sources not some blog posts or amateur YouTube videos.
Well I haven't read earlier posts of this thread, but I guess the MKI's new radar will be Uttam Mk. 2. Plz correct me if I am wrong.
The interview you've linked also clearly says 84 in the first tranche . How did you miss that ? Super Sukhoi may be a marketing gimmick by Sukhoi but the name stuck even if Sukhoi themselves aren't part of the upgrade either now or ever . The press loves it & so do most defence enthusiasts in here or out there. Your vehemently objecting to it every time you see it suggests you being either a pedant or you suffering from OCD or some deeper malaise . Have you ever considered therapy ? Mid 30's is not too late to start .
Which is clearly different from the number number 150 quoted by the blog post.
Your inability to have a rational conversation without getting personal with anyone on this forum says a lot about your character. Clearly therapy did not help you.
In the first tranche obviously means more numbers would follow. Besides this number's business as far as upgrades go is an old one. I've seen reports including speculation by PKS going back to 2016 if I'm not mistaken enumerating anywhere between 150-225 now to be upgraded . Why the discrimination I've no clue as explanations provided then seemed unsatisfactory.
By getting personal if you mean commenting on personality traits of a person , then unfortunately , for your information , there's no therapy for that . That's just another personality trait . It's called close observation . People also classify it as inquisitiveness . People who do classify it as inquisitiveness also have a personality trait .
84 or 150 or 200, these are all plans that may change in future. Don't think anything is set in stone regarding MKI MLU so don't see the point of debate around the number of upgraded Flankers in our Air Force *at the moment*. The upgrade specs are far more important as the capability jump over the current plane may be substantial.
PS: If we're changing the radar and avionics along with carbon fibre composite skin replacing all Aluminium and Titanium parts then the overall weight change would be substantial. So a new FBW software also needs to be developed as the entire CoG and CoP would change too. This is a highly ambitious goal/plan in my opinion.
As our next gen fighters are delayed we need MKI MLU and more Rafales as quickly as possible.
If all the upgraded systems are 'desi' then the upgrade cost would definitely be less than imports, me thinks.
Uttam MK3 GaA based radar.
PS: If we're changing the radar and avionics along with carbon fibre composite skin replacing all Aluminium and Titanium parts then the overall weight change would be substantial. So a new FBW software also needs to be developed as the entire CoG and CoP would change too. This is a highly ambitious goal/plan in my opinion.
As our next gen fighters are delayed we need MKI MLU and more Rafales as quickly as possible.
How much of an FA's signature is linked to its shape , it's MoC & how much of it's exhaust linked to IR signature ? In case of the former you can't do anything to the shape which is a huge cause of it's signature so what's the point in tinkering around with it's MoC . In case of the engine's exhaust too , what can be done about it without a major modification which in itself would be sub optimal at best .
Ditto for changing Al & Ti parts or going in for a new FBW system . I don't see any cost benefit accruing . In fact it'd push up the budget considerably besides increasing the time taken to upgrade the FAs.
The basic aim of the program is indigenization & upgradation of essential avionics . A set of new upgraded engines would always be welcome. Anything beyond this is unnecessary.
Of course, there will be more since we have 250+ airframes. Its common sense. But as the air chief said, it will take 4-5 just for the development. Thus more won't be happening this decade. Guessing numbers outside of that timeframe is just a waste of time.