Sukhoi Su-30MKI

[randomradio]

Just because a fighter is tagged with a certain role it doesn't mean it can't perform air to air. F-18G is still an F-18 and will be able to jam enemy fighters better than any 4th gen fighter currently flying.
View attachment 26340

If jamming was that great, then we wouldn't need ASFs.

Growler's jamming is highly specialised and manual, it's not suitable for high intensity air combat. It lacks integration and sensor fusion. The same with NGJ. Both have been designed for expert EW specialists, not your run-of-the-mill F-35/SH pilot. You're not gonna risk such assets in air combat. The Growler is very expensive and a specialist takes 10+ years to train. It's meant to operate from a very safe, beyond BVR distance.

In today's era, the Growler's job is to assist in strike missions after the F-22 has done the air superiority job. Recall that article where the F-35 pilot said he would prefer the F-35 over the F-22? It's 'cause he wants to do missions with minimum risk after the F-22 has killed off the enemy. It's just a very old bragging point that's meant to be funny while also showcasing the USAF's might. F-16 pilots used to say the same. Wait for the F-15C (and E) to kill everything that shoots back, then the F-16s would fly around doing actual work (bombing ground/naval forces, which determines actual victory or defeat) in a much safer environment while the F-15s would fly around "uselessly" doing no work, just acting like cheerleaders for the F-16s from the back. So that's where Growler comes in.

 

[Rajput Lion]

A lot of the news coming out of China is propaganda. Simply based on specs, the MKI is not a match. Neither is the J-16.

Why they would use propaganda regarding J-16, when it's not their basic design(like J-20) or even not for export? Doesn't make any sense, IMO.

EW pods won't help a lot when the enemy jet has significantly superior stealth, kinematic and electronic characterisitcs. Aircraft like Growler and J-16D are meant for SEAD/DEAD, not air combat.

I wasn't saying that they are used for air combat. My point was regarding the power of external jamming pods and their superiority over internal ones(in terms of brute power)

I can't stress this enough, 20-40 J-20s can wipe out our entire MKI fleet. There's no two ways about this.

I would like to disagree here.

The only way MKI can fight back is if there's an equally capable aircraft protecting it, and we have the Rafale.

So you are saying that current Rafale is equally capable to J-20, so it can fight it. I am saying that future MKI MLU should have same or better characteristics and active/passive sensors than current Rafale, so it should be able to fight J-20 as well in future.

Upgrading the MKI's avionics doesn't change this reality, all it does is improves its chances a bit more. I

Just the addition of digital RWR makes is a lot more survivable. Additional of QWIP based IRST will allow it to detect and fire at stealth aircrafts from a distance.

Chinese claim that their IRST can detect/track both F-22 and B-2 from over 100 kilometers.

If the MKI was enough to defeat the J-20, then it's enough to defeat the NGAD too. That's how pointless this argument is.

In air combat, never say never. History has proven that even inferior planes have defeated superior planes via superior tactics and training.

Anyways, you are comparing J-20 with NGAD? Chinese NGAD rival is just coming online soon, which means they know that J-20 won't be able to dominate NGAD.

The air chief wasn't being completely honest, he was speculating.

Nope. He categorically said that MKI tracked it over Tibet. May be J-20 was flying with Lunenburg Lens, but still MKI should also have sniffed its thermal signature that day using its IRST.

He basically said since the J-20 has canards, it can be caught on radar, that's plain wrong.

No stealth plane uses canards for a reason. IAF chief knew what he was talking about that day.

MKI's fuel load was impressive when it started off, now it's normal. Its endurance can't compete with next gen jets. For example, Rafale has 2-2.5 times the endurance from an operational PoV

Only with drop tanks. Without drop tanks Rafale is not even in the same league in terms of endurance as MKI. And as I said, MKI MLU will also have drop tanks which should enhance its endurance several times.

. Su-57 has at least 5-6 times more. The J-20 will have the same advantage. EFTs will enhance that a little bit, but it will just be somewhat above the Su-35, at least enough to compete with the Rafale.

Good enough for all our operational demands.

The Chinese have a bare minimum number of Flankers. They have 4 major enemies (or directions) to deal with, and they have 50 jets against each with 50 in reserve.

The point is they can stop procuring Flankers and only procure J-20 and J-10 combo. But no they are getting 30 to 50 modern Flankers per year, which is a substantial number.

The Chinese are expected to have their 6th gen operational at the same time or even earlier than the NGAD.

Engines are their biggest hurdle in doing that. NGAD is going to have a revolutionary engine. Don't think even WS-15 would match up.

 

[randomradio]

Why they would use propaganda regarding J-16, when it's not their basic design(like J-20) or even not for export? Doesn't make any sense, IMO.

Okay, if you believe that, then you can believe this as well.

Face It: China’s J-20 Is A Fifth-Generation Fighter | Aviation Week Network

The U.S. should account for an advanced adversary when making decisions about its future fighter force.

aviationweek.com

A September 2020 article published in the Global Times, a Chinese Communist Party outlet, reported kill ratios of 17:0 by the 9th Air Brigade in exercises between the J-20 and other fighters. PLAAF pilot Chen Xinhao, who reportedly had only 100 flight hours in the aircraft, remained undefeated throughout the event.

If it's true, it's likely to be true, then the older MKI stands no chance at all. It's impossible for the MKI to get such a high kill ratio with even an expert pilot, never mind a rookie pilot.

So you are saying that current Rafale is equally capable to J-20, so it can fight it. I am saying that future MKI MLU should have same or better characteristics and active/passive sensors than current Rafale, so it should be able to fight J-20 as well in future.

Not without a tiny RCS and active cancellation, but the MKI doesn't have a small RCS, it's physically impossible for it to match the Rafale, and its external EA pod cannot provide active cancellation, only basic EA.

The MKI can get a better radar, better IRST, better MAWS, better weapons etc than the Rafale, but it's still only going to be an F-15EX equivalent. It will never duplicate the capabilities of the Rafale in terms of survivability.

Anyways, you are comparing J-20 with NGAD? Chinese NGAD rival is just coming online soon, which means they know that J-20 won't be able to dominate NGAD.

Then how will our MKIs fare?

So the Americans and Chinese have surpassed the F-15 and Flanker, and then they are now making jets that will surpass the jets that surpassed the F-15 and Flanker. But our Flanker will be a match?

There's a member on this forum who's practically delusional about this subject. He thinks adding more MKIs, because not Prasun, but HAL pushed the narrative for 4 more squadrons. The IAF has already laughed them all out the door.

Let's be realitic about this. There are IAF pilots who have clearly said the current MKI cannot even defeat the F-15C in a BVR fight. Just upgrading the avionics isn't enough to surpass next gen jets, you LITERALLY have to match the enemy's physical characteristics. You have no choice. The only advantage the MKI has over the PLAAF is there are a lot of jets and the MKI's physical characteristics are significantly superior to the J-10C and J-16. But the J-20, 1-on-1, no chance.

No stealth plane uses canards for a reason. IAF chief knew what he was talking about that day.

Myth.

Canards on an aircraft being less stealthy is only relative to itself. A J-20 without canards will be more stealthy than a J-20 with one, but even the canard J-20 can be as stealthy if not more stealthy than the F-22.

Only with drop tanks. Without drop tanks Rafale is not even in the same league in terms of endurance as MKI. And as I said, MKI MLU will also have drop tanks which should enhance its endurance several times.

And that will come at the sacrifice of hardpoints for bombs. The Flanker was designed without EFTs, but now it needs EFTs to keep up.

The point is they can stop procuring Flankers and only procure J-20 and J-10 combo. But no they are getting 30 to 50 modern Flankers per year, which is a substantial number.

That's irrelevant. The F-16 is also still in production. There's just demand for it because the PLAAF advanced Flanker fleet is still small.

Engines are their biggest hurdle in doing that. NGAD is going to have a revolutionary engine. Don't think even WS-15 would match up.

How do you expect the MKI to fight these jets?

The avionics on LCA is more advanced than on MKI. The LCA Mk2's avionics will be far more advanced than MKI MLU. So don't you think LCA is enough then? It has an RCS small enough to compete with the Rafale, and it will come with internal EW suite with EA, so it can be enhanced with active stealth, unlike MKI. Going by your logic, the LCA Mk2 will be far superior to the MKI.

You are arguing against the impossible. Neither the F-15EX nor the MKI MLU can compete with the J-20. The MKI's only real purpose is to act as a bomb truck for the Rafale, the same as the F-15EX. Its time is over.

 

[_Anonymous_]

@Rajput Lion

Over the past couple of years , regulars here who've read & dissected RST's posts seriously ( numbers falling btw ) would've noticed the following Einsteinian equation , a common strand whenever such comparisons come up -

Su-57 > J-20 > F-35 ;

Rafale > J-20

but F-35 > Rafale.

If this makes sense to you , everything he wrote / writes will . Source - trust me bro ( esp when it comes to the Su-57 or the Chinese FAs )

PKS may have gotten the figures of 350-375 from HAL ( I've never ever seen either him or RST share their sources on critical issues , yet his track record remains ... Never mind let's not go there , it's a sore topic ) courtesy his interactions with them coz Russian sources including their publications & defense blogs had much the same to report . @Ankit Kumar reported once visiting Russian Defense Forums . Perhaps he can clarify it from them .

It obviously follows that at at that point in time this was the thinking of Sukhoi / UAC , HAL , IAF & MoD . Subsequently due to various reasons known & unknown IAF changed it's stance .

My stance in the light of the events of 2020 , the IAFs quizzical position regarding making up falling numbers & the lack of further orders for Rafales is go in for additional MKIs with Super Sukhoi package at least since you have the luxury of mfg it here for which the facilities are at your disposal & needn't be set up anew. Simultaneously pls order the 2nd tranche of 3 squadrons (instead of 2) of Rafales & double the orders for the Mk-1a .

If anybody has some better ideas I'm all ears & no , by better ideas , I don't mean Einstein's equation written towards the beginning of this post .

 

[Ankit Kumar]

@Rajput Lion

Over the past couple of years , regulars here who've read & dissected RST's posts seriously ( numbers falling btw ) would've noticed the following Einsteinian equation , a common strand whenever such comparisons come up -

Su-57 > J-20 > F-35 ;

Rafale > J-20

but F-35 > Rafale.

If this makes sense to you , everything he wrote / writes will . Source - trust me bro ( esp when it comes to the Su-57 or the Chinese FAs )

PKS may have gotten the figures of 350-375 from HAL ( I've never ever seen either him or RST share their sources on critical issues , yet his track record remains ... Never mind let's not go there , it's a sore topic ) courtesy his interactions with them coz Russian sources including their publications & defense blogs had much the same to report . @Ankit Kumar reported once visiting Russian Defense Forums . Perhaps he can clarify it from them .

It obviously follows that at at that point in time this was the thinking of Sukhoi / UAC , HAL , IAF & MoD . Subsequently due to various reasons known & unknown IAF changed it's stance .

My stance in the light of the events of 2020 , the IAFs quizzical position regarding making up falling numbers & the lack of further orders for Rafales is go in for additional MKIs with Super Sukhoi package at least since you have the luxury of mfg it here for which the facilities are at your disposal & needn't be set up anew. Simultaneously pls order the 2nd tranche of 3 squadrons (instead of 2) of Rafales & double the orders for the Mk-1a .

If anybody has some better ideas I'm all ears & no , by better ideas , I don't mean Einstein's equation written towards the beginning of this post .

Although there exists clearances for 12 Su30MKI, people do know (coming to their senses) that the more sensible thing to do is either to drop that procurement and focus on upgrade, or if it's necessary to restart the Nashik line, do it for more than just 1 year. IAF has a good CAPEX this year and payments for Rafale are done. Let's see what they decide upon.

Additional MK1A (or Mk1B as few call it) depends upon how well HAL and ADA deliver on their promises. I haven't seen the twin seater deliveries...

 

[_Anonymous_]

Although there exists clearances for 12 Su30MKI, people do know (coming to their senses) that the more sensible thing to do is either to drop that procurement and focus on upgrade, or if it's necessary to restart the Nashik line, do it for more than just 1 year.

As of now the upgrades which'd begin in 2026-27 is for 80 nos & not the full fleet. How many will be upgraded is still a mystery apart from the nature of upgrades which does not involve the engine . How exactly would 80 MKIs + 32 Rafales take on the might of PLAAF is something only God & IAF knows or perhaps only the latter .

IAF has a good CAPEX this year and payments for Rafale are done. Let's see what they decide upon.

I suppose a good chunk of that CAPEX would go towards development funds towards the Mk-2 , AMCA , outstanding payment for the Mk-1 , advance payment for Mk-1a , LCA trainers , LUH / LCH , etc . Once you go thru this , whatever is left will be spent of some fresh purchases. What can you think of ? Advance payment for another tranche of 32/54 Rafales or 10 Predator drones ? Possibly .

Additional MK1A (or Mk1B as few call it) depends upon how well HAL and ADA deliver on their promises. I haven't seen the twin seater deliveries...

Frankly I don't foresee any major incorporations into the Mk-1a which'd convert it into the Mk-1b . Can't think of anything except MAWS / LWR / RWR , IRST , towed decoy perhaps & maybe an advanced EW suite . What more can you think of ?

We still have time till Mar '24 to deliver the trainers . Or do you foresee delays here too ?

 

[Ankit Kumar]

As of now the upgrades which'd begin in 2026-27 is for 80 nos & not the full fleet. How many will be upgraded is still a mystery apart from the nature of upgrades which does not involve the engine . How exactly would 80 MKIs + 32 Rafales take on the might of PLAAF is something only God & IAF knows or perhaps only the latter .

Untill a comprehensive deal is signed, we will likely continue to see batch by batch upgrades of certain items. Like digital RWR, integration of weapons, some new computers, etc.

I suppose a good chunk of that CAPEX would go towards development funds towards the Mk-2 , AMCA , outstanding payment for the Mk-1 , advance payment for Mk-1a , LCA trainers , LUH / LCH , etc . Once you go thru this , whatever is left will be spent of some fresh purchases. What can you think of ? Advance payment for another tranche of 32/54 Rafales or 10 Predator drones ? Possibly .

IAF and IA aren't that interested in Guardians. My personal thought is that we may see the deals for tanker conversions getting signed and maybe some funds for aewcs MK2. Rest everything you mentioned already.

We still have time till Mar '24 to deliver the trainers . Or do you foresee delays here too ?

There will be some delay for sure. Let's see.

 

[bubzy]

Hello. I have some question about the Su30mki procurement, but some of the sources I have found are in Indi and I'm stuck in my research.

Do you have some sources information about the cost of this program since the begining ? And because it have started in 1996, there is also the inflation to take in consideration.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Okay, if you believe that, then you can believe this as well.

Face It: China’s J-20 Is A Fifth-Generation Fighter | Aviation Week Network

The U.S. should account for an advanced adversary when making decisions about its future fighter force.

aviationweek.com

A September 2020 article published in the Global Times, a Chinese Communist Party outlet, reported kill ratios of 17:0 by the 9th Air Brigade in exercises between the J-20 and other fighters. PLAAF pilot Chen Xinhao, who reportedly had only 100 flight hours in the aircraft, remained undefeated throughout the event.

J-20 killing 4+ gen jets 17:0 isn't surprising, but J-16 putting up a fight against J-20 is.

If it's true, it's likely to be true, then the older MKI stands no chance at all. It's impossible for the MKI to get such a high kill ratio with even an expert pilot, never mind a rookie pilot.

BVR air combat is a very complicated affair. Training and tactics are important too. MKI is a different beast from all these Chinese Flankers.

Not without a tiny RCS and active cancellation, but the MKI doesn't have a small RCS, it's physically impossible for it to match the Rafale, and its external EA pod cannot provide active cancellation, only basic EA.

MKI MLU should also focus on reducing its RCS. That along with next gen jamming pods and towed decoys, MKI will be much more survival against J-20 and other 5th gen fighters.

The MKI can get a better radar, better IRST, better MAWS, better weapons etc than the Rafale, but it's still only going to be an F-15EX equivalent. It will never duplicate the capabilities of the Rafale in terms of survivability.

MKI MLU should bring it at par. But of course, in some areas Rafale will always be ahead. But post MLU, MKI shall surpass it in plenty of areas as well.

Then how will our MKIs fare?

So the Americans and Chinese have surpassed the F-15 and Flanker, and then they are now making jets that will surpass the jets that surpassed the F-15 and Flanker. But our Flanker will be a match?

Yes with deep upgrade. It won't dominate but shall definitely be able to fight them.

There's a member on this forum who's practically delusional about this subject. He thinks adding more MKIs, because not Prasun, but HAL pushed the narrative for 4 more squadrons. The IAF has already laughed them all out the door.

I support him too.

Let's be realitic about this. There are IAF pilots who have clearly said the current MKI cannot even defeat the F-15C in a BVR fight.

MKI dominated Eurofighter in BVR. F-15C/E/EX is no match for our MKI.

Just upgrading the avionics isn't enough to surpass next gen jets, you LITERALLY have to match the enemy's physical characteristics. You have no choice. The only advantage the MKI has over the PLAAF is there are a lot of jets and the MKI's physical characteristics are significantly superior to the J-10C and J-16. But the J-20, 1-on-1, no chance.

1 on 1 in WVR fight, J-20 is dead meat against MKI. Killing enemy jets 100kms away is not possible against a peer level enemy. Upgraded MKI will force J-20 to come close as it should deny long range BVR shots with better RWR and supportive Jamming.

In a dense environment, fight will be much closer than we expect.

Myth.

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No myth at all. All these are either X-planes or concept. In production J-20 is the only stealth plane with canards. Russian LEVCON solution for high alpha/maneuverability is the best one I think.

Canards on an aircraft being less stealthy is only relative to itself. A J-20 without canards will be more stealthy than a J-20 with one, but even the canard J-20 can be as stealthy if not more stealthy than the F-22.

Yes, but J-20 isn't as IAF chief said.

And that will come at the sacrifice of hardpoints for bombs. The Flanker was designed without EFTs, but now it needs EFTs to keep up.

Just in case, as 10 tonne internal fuel is more than enough. With MLU we will improve the engine too which shall increase fuel efficiency and enhance endurance.

That's irrelevant. The F-16 is also still in production. There's just demand for it because the PLAAF advanced Flanker fleet is still small.

It is relevant because J-16 is an integral part of Chinese air doctrine. It is the only plane that can fire PL-XX or PL-21. A missile with over 500 kms range. Their entire BVR air dominance strategy is based upon combo of J-20 and J-16.

How do you expect the MKI to fight these jets?

With deep upgrade, of course.

The avionics on LCA is more advanced than on MKI. The LCA Mk2's avionics will be far more advanced than MKI MLU. So don't you think LCA is enough then? It has an RCS small enough to compete with the Rafale, and it will come with internal EW suite with EA, so it can be enhanced with active stealth, unlike MKI. Going by your logic, the LCA Mk2 will be far superior to the MKI.

LCA MK2 will be our J-10. Chinese are adding more J-16s despite having J-10. So MKI is still very important element of our air dominance.

You are arguing against the impossible. Neither the F-15EX nor the MKI MLU can compete with the J-20. The MKI's only real purpose is to act as a bomb truck for the Rafale, the same as the F-15EX. Its time is over.

With MLU, it will continue to act as IAF's backbone well into the next decade.

Anyways, since we're going in circles, so lets end this debate here

 

[Hydra]

A lot of the news coming out of China is propaganda. Simply based on specs, the MKI is not a match. Neither is the J-16.

EW pods won't help a lot when the enemy jet has significantly superior stealth, kinematic and electronic characterisitcs. Aircraft like Growler and J-16D are meant for SEAD/DEAD, not air combat.

I can't stress this enough, 20-40 J-20s can wipe out our entire MKI fleet. There's no two ways about this. The only way MKI can fight back is if there's an equally capable aircraft protecting it, and we have the Rafale. Upgrading the MKI's avionics doesn't change this reality, all it does is improves its chances a bit more. If the MKI was enough to defeat the J-20, then it's enough to defeat the NGAD too. That's how pointless this argument is.

The air chief wasn't being completely honest, he was speculating. He basically said since the J-20 has canards, it can be caught on radar, that's plain wrong.

MKI's fuel load was impressive when it started off, now it's normal. Its endurance can't compete with next gen jets. For example, Rafale has 2-2.5 times the endurance from an operational PoV. Su-57 has at least 5-6 times more. The J-20 will have the same advantage. EFTs will enhance that a little bit, but it will just be somewhat above the Su-35, at least enough to compete with the Rafale.

The Chinese have a bare minimum number of Flankers. They have 4 major enemies (or directions) to deal with, and they have 50 jets against each with 50 in reserve.

The Chinese are expected to have their 6th gen operational at the same time or even earlier than the NGAD.

But MKI is having superior wvr capabilities, cobr manuer,mass pleasing acrobatics. @Rajput Lion

 

[Rajput Lion]

But MKI is having superior wvr capabilities, cobr manuer,mass pleasing acrobatics. @Rajput Lion

No its crap because you said so

 

[Sathya]

Super sukhoi 30 Mki should proceed to towards Mini Awacs + team up with CATS (UAVs UCAVs loitering munitions) and fight from distance along LAC until Amca gets ready..

Can do this Su 30 mki Upgrade + CATS within next 5 years?

 

[Arpuism]

Super sukhoi 30 Mki should proceed to towards Mini Awacs + team up with CATS (UAVs UCAVs loitering munitions) and fight from distance along LAC until Amca gets ready..

Can do this Su 30 mki Upgrade + CATS within next 5 years?

Very well said. Heartening that sensible people are still in this forum otherwise full of dalals especially “Rafale dalals”.

 

[Hydra]

Super sukhoi 30 Mki should proceed to towards Mini Awacs + team up with CATS (UAVs UCAVs loitering munitions) and fight from distance along LAC until Amca gets ready..

Can do this Su 30 mki Upgrade + CATS within next 5 years?

That mini awacs fallacy is too old for now.
MKI is nothing but a mediocre air superiority fighter, its IAF's T72/90. Those who can't9 afford /not been offered NATO tanks went for T72/90.

No, it will not.

 

[Hydra]

Very well said. Heartening that sensible people are still in this forum otherwise full of dalals especially “Rafale dalals”.

Not sense, its covering the hole on wall with shade.

Don't call people with such nonsenses who is so concerns about the pathetic state of Indian defense and calls for modernisation by inducting superior platforms. Do you want IAF to perish in hand of enemy by flying tin models like MKI, Jaguar, Mirage, migs?

 

[Arpuism]

Not sense, its covering the hole on wall with shade.

Don't call people with such nonsenses who is so concerns about the pathetic state of Indian defense and calls for modernisation by inducting superior platforms. Do you want IAF to perish in hand of enemy by flying tin models like MKI, Jaguar, Mirage, migs?

what he has said is futuristic and logical. Rather than going backwards to purchase MRCA for all the candidates are past technologies its only way to be future ready to be future ready. MKIs with CATS is futuristic not your 3-4 decades old platforms like Rafale which neither gives any technological advantage beyond 2025 nor cheap and indigenous solution of fulfilling numbers gap. Its not just having fancy items which win wars but optimal utilization of your resources. But you cant comprehend this stuff.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Very well said. Heartening that sensible people are still in this forum otherwise full of dalals especially “Rafale dalals”.

Rafale is a great plane and a great addition to IAF. It is currently our most modern and capable plane and we should definitely procure more. But MKI post MLU will regain its edge over Rafale as an air dominance fighter.

Also, any fighter that hangs its stores and payload below is neither LO or VLO. That thought itself is nothing but fallacy. Only thing that sets apart or makes such planes LO is EW suite, IMO.


MKI will have a cutting edge EW suite pretty damn soon. So it will become as discreet in EM spectrum as planes like Rafale/Gripen.

 

[Arpuism]

Rafale is a great plane and a great addition to IAF. It is currently our most modern and capable plane and we should definitely procure more. But MKI post MLU will regain its edge over Rafale as an air dominance fighter.

Also, any fighter that hangs its stores and payload below is neither LO or VLO. That thought itself is nothing but fallacy. Only thing that sets apart or makes such planes LO is EW suite, IMO.


MKI will have a cutting edge EW suite pretty damn soon. So it will become as discreet in EM spectrum as planes like Rafale/Gripen.

Rafale is great addition no doubt but the simple reason is the autonomy of operation it provides and its requirement for current needs. It is more of an emergency procurement. However, all of whatever Rafale is providing now will be provided by Tejas mk 2 beyond 2028 but at cheaper cost, indigenous and full autonomy and benefiting indigenous industry. So no need to procure anymore Rafales because they wont come before 2028. At that point of time Rafale cannot provide any technological advantage nor will come any cheap. Only option for any great power is :-
1) adapt existing inventory to current needs
2) develop current programs meticulously for current & future needs
3) R&D dedicatedly for future

 

[Hydra]

what he has said is futuristic and logical. Rather than going backwards to purchase MRCA for all the candidates are past technologies its only way to be future ready to be future ready. MKIs with CATS is futuristic not your 3-4 decades old platforms like Rafale which neither gives any technological advantage beyond 2025 nor cheap and indigenous solution of fulfilling numbers gap. Its not just having fancy items which win wars but optimal utilization of your resources. But you cant comprehend this stuff.

The Rafale we gonna order is F4 version or more, its as good as a brand new aircraft. On the other hand, you are proposing or supporting the idea of stuffing inside 20 year old fuselage with yesteday's technology like MaWS, IR warning sensor or an AESA radar.

Lastly, the fancy items dont win war. Exactly, the fancy items like su27,30,34,35, smerch, hypersonic missiles of Russia didn't brought victory yet.

MKI will have a cutting edge EW suite pretty damn soon. So it will become as discreet in EM spectrum as planes like Rafale/Gripen.

With mere 4.5 billion program to update 180 or so fuselages. Yup it will have cutting edge technology, only if you time traveled to early 90s with those upgraded Sukhoi.

 

[Hydra]

Rafale is great addition no doubt but the simple reason is the autonomy of operation it provides and its requirement for current needs. It is more of an emergency procurement. However, all of whatever Rafale is providing now will be provided by Tejas mk 2 beyond 2028 but at cheaper cost, indigenous and full autonomy and benefiting indigenous industry. So no need to procure anymore Rafales because they wont come before 2028. At that point of time Rafale cannot provide any technological advantage nor will come any cheap. Only option for any great power is :-
1) adapt existing inventory to current needs
2) develop current programs meticulously for current & future needs
3) R&D dedicatedly for future

This is 2023
A)How many Tejas MK2 had made so far?
B)Did any one had produced any modern 4+ gen fighter with in 5 years of time?
C) what all are the technology Tejas MK2 gonna poses which make an aircraft on par with Rafale?