Sukhoi Su-30MKI

[Hydra]

Whole documentation and expertise is laying waste.

Just like what happened with Boforse howitzer blue print. Yeas, somebody had opened it after years.

I do not know if Uttam project was MM or TD, I would guess it was at TD stage. Hence long tech validation time. If it were a mission mode project then less delay would have happened.

If you failed to made a product to a final product, the we indians shamelessly defend it by saying it was mere a TD or partial success etc. The day we ready accept failures, shortcomings we will made some progress.

We already put Trisul & Nirbhay in TD category now.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1627320709902110720

 

[marich01]

We got 1 more shortfall now after the recent accident. HAL was pushing for those 12, hopefully this time lucky.

 

[Sathya]

We got 1 more shortfall now after the recent accident. HAL was pushing for those 12, hopefully this time lucky.

Isn't it better to have 10 more Rafale than 12 Sukhoi 30mki ?

Which has better survivability against Chinese
Long range Meteor
Better availability rate

 

[Ashwin]

Good watch

He talks about EW systems.

 

[Rajput Lion]

We got 1 more shortfall now after the recent accident. HAL was pushing for those 12, hopefully this time lucky.

We should actually order at least 18 more with future attrition in mind too.

Isn't it better to have 10 more Rafale than 12 Sukhoi 30mki ?

These are actually attrition replacements which are required to have proper squadron strength.

Having more Rafale is a totally different requirement. In that case, we need at least 2/3 squadrons ASAP.

Which has better survivability against Chinese
Long range Meteor
Better availability rate

Which can dominate Indian Ocean and carry Brahmos-A? Su-30MKI flying with Brahmos is something both our hostile neighbours should fear, more than any other plane.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Good watch

He talks about EW systems.

Love DRDO, they have done/are doing a great job for our nation

So, Dr. Das confirmed that Tejas's ASPJ will have 2 KW cooling power while Su-30's ASPJ will have more powerful 3.5KW cooling channel. Also, entire EW suite is full-on swadesi(absolutely awesome). The way he said that how this ASPJ would choke all radar signals reeked of confidence.

Another great detail he confirmed that now DRDO has firmly moved from GaAs to GaN in Uttam. Another awesome news.

Netra MK2 details were also very interesting and refreshing.

Thanks @Ashwin for posting this amazing and informative video.

 

[randomradio]

I've known this since long too, but decided not to reveal as people would mock me by saying Resident Optimist number 2, lol.

Which means, next year onwards MKI will have insanely good EW, maybe even better than SPECTRA.

I disagree with this conclusion. GaN should need even lesser power than GaA. If power was such a concern then AMCA VCU won't be of similar rating, i.e., 10.5KW like the proposed MKI UPG VCU.

Lets look at this poster posted by @marich01:

View attachment 26593

Now what's written at the bottom:

View attachment 26594

So, MKI and AMCA will have same power rated VCU @10.5 KW. Thus I conclude that in future MKI too will get GaN AESA radar, once that tech matures and is ready for AMCA.

AMCA's nose cone is much smaller, so it will carry lesser TRMs. And given its more modern design it will need VCUs for conformal arrays too. Also, AMCA Mk1 and Mk2 may carry different radars given the long gap between the two.

This talk of Uttam Mk2 being GaN, it was announced during AI 2021 as well, I would take it with a pinch of salt for now.

 

[randomradio]

I am not sure about it.
Hell, even @randomradio will agree with me.

Equal to or better than SPECTRA is irrelevant, the MKI's EA design not enough for active cancellation. Canard roots, inlets, fins and the spine require antennas.

 

[randomradio]

@randomradio

In our last discussion you said that MKI's EW would be full external. But it looks like the next gen EW systems consists of an "internal wideband receiver" and external jamming pods. Same for Tejas MK1A. The difference is Tejas' pod seems to be smaller and it'll have one receiver, one ASPJ pod configuration whilst Su-30UPG will have one internal receiver and two wingtip mounted ASPJ pods. Along with wideband RWR(1GHz to 40GHz), it is almost bleeding edge. What say?

Here is comparison of Tejas MK1A's ASPJ vs Su-30UPG's ASPJ. We can see both the jamming pod plus the "internal receiver"(black box) in both pics:

View attachment 26618

View attachment 26619

Receivers were always internal, since day 1.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

 

[_Anonymous_]

Are you sure ? Because our administrator wrote sometime back linking an article which stated only 80 odd MKIs would be upgraded with no news about the others meaning even if the others are upgraded they wouldn't be done before 2030 so there's no point talking about it now & as you know our administrator is never wrong . It's his site after all.

 

[Ankit Kumar]

Are you sure ? Because our administrator wrote sometime back linking an article which stated only 80 odd MKIs would be upgraded with no news about the others meaning even if the others are upgraded they wouldn't be done before 2030 so there's no point talking about it now & as you know our administrator is never wrong . It's his site after all.

Cannot say much about the numbers but squadron by squadron they are interfacing the Astra and replacing the RWR.

That's the only confirmed thing right now.

 

[Ashwin]

This is just an upgrade of RWR to Dhruti DR118 which is not part of the MLU program being undertaken by IAF. BEL was given ToT and DAC cleared the procurement last year. This is the third RWR upgrade including Tarang. So not news.

This dude made a video with "super" in the title because of the poster from Aero India.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Equal to or better than SPECTRA is irrelevant, the MKI's EA design not enough for active cancellation. Canard roots, inlets, fins and the spine require antennas.

My point was that thanks to GaN update, MKI's brute jamming and deceptive jamming would improve. Plus it would be able to do cross-eye jamming much better now(with both our pods being emitters now against just one of Khibiny).

Gripen C's EW(in Swiss evaluation) was rated almost as good as Rafale even though it also didn't have "active cancellation". Gripen-E still doesn't have internal jamming(only passive listening sensors inside like MKI), its active jammers are also pod based like MKI and also GaN like MKI(from next year onwards). Looking at Gripen-C's EW performance against Rafale, Gripen-NG should have somewhat more capable system.

So overall MKI's GaN based EW would be more capable than Rafale's GaA based EW even if it doesn't have active cancellation.

Talking about Active Cancellation; cancelling frequency hopping super agile LPI AESA radars is literally impossible. Against older radars, still difficult, but somewhat possible.

 

[Rajput Lion]

Are you sure ? Because our administrator wrote sometime back linking an article which stated only 80 odd MKIs would be upgraded with no news about the others meaning even if the others are upgraded they wouldn't be done before 2030 so there's no point talking about it now & as you know our administrator is never wrong . It's his site after all.

@Ashwin posted this poster few days ago:

Look at the status part. 129 Digital RWR DR118 Dhruti is going to be put in MKI soon. This will allow MKI to intercept LPI AESA signals and take proper action.

Some years ago Prasun Da posted this:

This was for 6-channel R118 version 'Eagle Eye'. Based upon this we should put DR118 Dhruti in all these modified 148 Flankers as Dhruti is a drop-fit replacement of R118. But they are going for 129 in first tranche. Next may be for future.

Anyways, great news is that now we've developed an ultra wideband RWR that covers frequencies from 1GHz to 40GHz. It is going to be way more capable than DR118(Dhruti intercepts frequency from 1GHz to 18GHz). That is specifically designed to work in tandem with our GaN based twin ASPJs. MKI's EW capabilities should take a quantum leap when that happens in last half of 2024.

 

[Rajput Lion]

AMCA's nose cone is much smaller, so it will carry lesser TRMs. And given its more modern design it will need VCUs for conformal arrays too. Also, AMCA Mk1 and Mk2 may carry different radars given the long gap between the two.

This talk of Uttam Mk2 being GaN, it was announced during AI 2021 as well, I would take it with a pinch of salt for now.

Dr. Das has already confirmed in the video posted by @Ashwin that now DRDO has moved from GaA to GaN in all fighter radars(except MK1A).

Looks like my dream of MKI getting GaN Uttam AESA from fist UPG batch of 80 is coming true

 

[_Anonymous_]

Talking about Active Cancellation; cancelling frequency hopping super agile LPI AESA radars is literally impossible. Against older radars, still difficult, but somewhat possible.

In which case how will SPECTRA perform against the J-20s, J-16s, J-10s etc assuming they are equipped with LIPI AESA radars ? Even if they aren't as on date , I reckon you'd see them upgraded in a few yrs time. If we're doing it, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be doing it.

 

[Rajput Lion]

In which case how will SPECTRA perform against the J-20s, J-16s, J-10s etc?

Active Cancellation is just one jamming/spoofing/fooling RF trick. Even if it doesn't work, SPECTRA has ability to deny all X-band radar locks and keep Rafale safe.

Our Rafale-I has even got in-built low band jammers. Looks like IAF really wants to penetrate our enemies deep with Rafale, lol.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Active Cancellation is just one jamming trick. Even if it doesn't work, SPECTRA has ability to deny all X-band radar locks and keep Rafale safe.

Our Rafale-I has even got in-built low band jammers. Looks like IAF really wants to penetrate our enemies deep with Rafale, lol.

Why can't we replicate active cancellation on MKIs or even build a replica of SPECTRA for MKI?