For that we would need jamming emitters all across the airframe. MKI UPG is suppose to have an internal EW system where we move from RWR to RWJ. Let's see.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
In layman's term(it is actually much beyond that) Active Cancellation is about creating similar return to the hostile emitter thus cancelling airframe return. But in theory it is very difficult against super agile LPI AESA radars since they can switch their frequencies in nano-seconds. That would create return lag thus rendering Active Cancellation ineffective.
Now, whether MKI with GaN twin-podded wing-tip emitters can do Active Cancellation or not, I don't know. But MKI UPG will have internal UEWS. Which means its RWR would also act like RWJ(Radar Warning Jamming). That would give it better angular ability to create Active Cancellation if possible.
French have done more work on Active Cancellation than anybody else. So better ask @Picdelamirand-oil about more.
Gripen's not constrained by the same problems as MKI though. Its frontal and rear RCS are already very small. And of course, any ACT on it will naturally not be as good as what's on the Rafale.
I don't believe the Swiss evaluation takes exotic tech like ACT into consideration. It only considers what the Swiss AF want. IAF does the same during evaluations and exotic tech is studied under a separate vertical, it ensures the evaluations are on an even keel and OEMs are able to protect their exotic capabilities.
ACT doesn't necessarily fall under EW although it is part of the Survivability vertical alongside EW.
And while the MKI's new EW suite appears impressive, we need to understand that while hardware is important, EW is much more about software.
Bandwidth is a problem for GaAs when compared to GaN. If the J-20 and J-16 are already operating GaN radars, I mean, why not, then it's going to be a very big problem for today's Rafale.
I don't believe MKI MLU will come with an RWJ. That's why the new wingtip pods.
Our scientists are well aware of RCS vs EW efficiency problem. In the same video of Dr. Das he confirmed that Tejas will have only one smaller ASPJ with 2KW cooling power. While MKI will have twin wing-tip pods with 3.5KW cooling channel each. So total 7KW cooling power. MKI needs two ASPJ pods that too more powerful than Tejas because it has higher RCS.
Dr. Das categorically said that MKI's EW pods would choke any hostile RF and jam all the systems. He seemed confident.
About Active Cancellation, just hope our scientists are pursuing this as well. Because unlike passive stealth, we can always upgrade Active Stealth with better sensors.
The GaN based pods with 1GHz to 40GHz internal super advance RWR is coming online from late next year on Su-30MKI. So the new GaN based EW if for current MKI not for the upgrade.
MLU is now officially termed Su-30UPG. Studies are going on about feasibility of internal EW suite for MKI. Confirmation here @4:10 onwards:
The difference in the size of pods is due to the difference in size of the airframe. The bigger the aircraft, the bigger the pod, the more antennas it carries, the more power it outputs. It goes back to the difference between high end and low end.
. Aware of this but thanks for the information nonetheless.Actually I meant why can't we equip MKIs with jamming emiiters across the airframe like Rafales instead of only the wingtips carrying such pods. Last heard the Russians raised objections which the Malaysians ignored while installing their MAWS aboard the MKM airframe probably coz the Russians got greedy & opened their mouths a bit too wide for consultancy to which the Russians obviously threatened not to guarantee the life of the airframe for being thus bypassed.
Depends on his mood. Have asked him before for recommendations for reading material or a write up on the subject . He said he'd look it up. Nothing followed.
True. But more powerful jammers are needed to mask Su-30MKI's bigger RCS as well. The lower the RCS, the more effective jamming becomes too while requiring that much less power.
Yeah, this has been in the "planning stage" since 2002.
The IAF doesn't want to cut holes in the airframe more than what's necessary. It's also why MKI doesn't have an internal MAWS yet.
Smart skins will definitely take care of quite a bit of this problem, but that comes with a whole host of other issues in terms of both powering it and cooling it as well as making significant changes to the external surface of the airframe, where metal has to be replaced with radome type materials. It's a very tall ask. The engines also need to undergo significant enhancements or needs replacement, which will cost billions more. So the question is if making such changes is worth investing in versus just buying new capabilities. For example, replacing the engine could cost $5B, but we can also buy 36 more Rafales with the same amount and that's far more effective than upgrading all the MKIs with a new engine.
Even if it's done, the MKI's RCS is irrelevantly huge, so it serves no real purpose except marginally improving aerodynamics at a very high cost and also at the risk of compromising the airframe.
The Mig-29 upgrade isn't a good comparison because the base variant and the upgrade are effectively two different aircraft. The amount of changes made on the Mig-29 is something the IAF will never accept for the MKI. The changes were also largely done by the Russians a long time ago, so it was a proven design by the time we opted for it. The risk of ruining the MKI is very high, and we have to carry all that risk, not the Russians.
Never mind
Maybe because MKI with twin-pod does everything we require it to do. Internal jammers would make it more aerodynamic though and free up two more hard points, so worth pursuing in my opinion.
Active Cancellation against very discreet and fast GaN based AESA radars and in future against Photonic based radar is going to be very very difficult, IMO.
It could be classified too.
While peak power is important, it has much more to do with distributing power over a wider swath or more targets. That's also the benefit of GaN, where you can increase the number of targets attacked by many times. Intelligent EA requires low power.
According to the host, new gen electroincs are much smaller and lighter, so Su-30UPG may have enough space to house Tejas MK2 like Unified Electronic Warfare System(UEWS) during upgrade. Let's see.
Awesome post
That's why if our software is upto mark(which will definitely be), this new GaN based EW suite for MKI is going to transform and upscale its survivability in dense/hostile EM environment.
Su-30MKI ASPJ pod will have 32 AATRU(Active Array Transmit/Receive Unit) whilst LCA MK1A will have 16 AATRU in its ASPJ pod. So MKI's twin pods combine will have 64 AATRUs. 4 times more than LCA, wow!
We seem to be preparing to disperse our air assets in case PLARF destroys all our forward air bases. Very smart move in my opinion:
More likely this is geared towards handling the Malacca Straits as a redundancy measure. Flying from here to Arunachal Pradesh doesn't make sense especially during wartime as we won't be allowed passage over either BD or Myanmar which means flying thru the narrow chicken's neck corridor in Siliguri made vulnerable due to heavy Chinese presence in the tri junction area .
The alternative destination - Ladakh is even worse . It's likely even farther than Arunachal Pradesh.
The biggest thing is not only GaN based twin pods, but the new ultra-wideband RWR that we've developed along with these pods. The pods are designed to work along with that RWR and its 360° ESM axis.
There are very few planes operational that have RWR that can intercept frequencies from L band(1GHz) to Ka band(40GHz). It means the pods would be able to jam/spoof/disrupt these frequencies thanks to GaN tech.
Most people don't realise what a game-changing upgrade this new EW is for MKI. Now the term Super Sukhoi is absolutely coming true.
As long as Derby ER/Astra Mk2 is available, the MKI will remain advanced against 4th gen threats, but is outdated against 4.5th gen and obsolete against 5th gen.
The MLU and stealth drones may help it match 4.5th gen, but will remain outdated against 5th gen.
It can still serve a purpose as a missile truck in the future in order to compensate for the low payload of 5th gen.