Yes, MKI is outdated now. But with upgrade it will become the best 4++ gen fighter once again. You need VLO to defeat MKI. And even then the kill exchange ratio won't be lopsided against it.
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Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
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This discussion is off-topic here.
Alpha Defense made one mistake in the video. The 16 AATRU is for Tejas MK1A. MKI will have 32 AATRU in a single ASPJ pod. And since it will carry two, overall it will have very very powerful 64 AATRU unit collectively as part of its EW suite.
Aatmanirbhar Bharat: MoD inks Rs 3,700 crore contracts with BEL for Medium Power Radars ‘Arudhra’ & 129 DR-118 Radar Warning Receivers
The projects to enhance surveillance, detection, tracking & Electronic Warfare capabilities of Indian Air Force
Posted On: 23 MAR 2023 6:02PM by PIB DelhiMinistry of Defence, on March 23, 2023, signed two separate contracts with Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL), at a total cost of over Rs 3,700 crore, to enhance the operational capabilities of the Indian Air Force. The first contract, worth over Rs 2,800 crore, pertains to the supply of Medium Power Radars (MPR) ‘Arudhra’ for the Indian Air Force. The second contract, at an overall cost of approx. Rs 950 crore, relates to 129 DR-118 Radar Warning Receivers (RWR). Both projects are under Buy {Indian – IDMM (Indigenously Designed Developed and Manufactured)} category. These essentially embody the spirit of ‘Aatmanirbhar Bharat’ and will help facilitate the realisation of the country’s journey to achieve self-reliance in defence manufacturing
While Dhruti is a big upgrade, the real big upgrade is coming after it. Dhruti or DR-118 is a wideband digital receiver working between frequencies from 1GHz(L band) to 18GHz(Ku band). It's a standalone system basically designed to work with current SAP-518/14 and ELTA pods.
ASPJ of Su-30MKI UPG. will consist of 2 wingtip pods and and internal RWR-NG that is ultra wide band(1GHz to 40GHz). Which means it can intercept and locate frequencies between 1GHz(L band) and 40 GHz(Ka band). This would bring MKI's EW at par or even better than SPECTRA and Gripen-E's EW. But this configuration is still few years away.
Dhruti DR-118 is indeed a substantial upgrade, but this RWR-NG along with HBJ pods will transform MKI into a cutting-edge fighter and enhance its survivability in hostile/dense environments immensely.
Now here are some pictures to convey my point. Here we can see the HBJ wingtip pods with new RWR-NG in both pics(while Dhruti is just standalone without any pods):
As we can see here the HBJ pods work with RWR with extended frequency coverage(much higher capacity than Dhruti).
Another pic where Dhruti and new RWR with pods both are very obviously differentiated:
Dhruti is already obsolete when we compare it with SPECTRA that can intercept frequencies between 2 GHz to 40GHz and Gripen-E's EW suite that can detect frequencies between 0.5 GHz to 40 GHz. The new RWR-NG with GaN HBJ pods shall bring us at par with these two cutting edge EW systems.
ASPJ of Su-30MKI UPG. will consist of 2 wingtip pods and and internal RWR-NG that is ultra wide band(1GHz to 40GHz). Which means it can intercept and locate frequencies between 1GHz(L band) and 40 GHz(Ka band). This would bring MKI's EW at par or even better than SPECTRA and Gripen-E's EW. But this configuration is still few years away.
Dhruti DR-118 is indeed a substantial upgrade, but this RWR-NG along with HBJ pods will transform MKI into a cutting-edge fighter and enhance its survivability in hostile/dense environments immensely.
Now here are some pictures to convey my point. Here we can see the HBJ wingtip pods with new RWR-NG in both pics(while Dhruti is just standalone without any pods):
As we can see here the HBJ pods work with RWR with extended frequency coverage(much higher capacity than Dhruti).
Another pic where Dhruti and new RWR with pods both are very obviously differentiated:
Dhruti is already obsolete when we compare it with SPECTRA that can intercept frequencies between 2 GHz to 40GHz and Gripen-E's EW suite that can detect frequencies between 0.5 GHz to 40 GHz. The new RWR-NG with GaN HBJ pods shall bring us at par with these two cutting edge EW systems.
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AL-51(Type-30) actually. If we want to reduce the RCS of MKI then AL-41F-1S can take it only that far. The biggest RCS spike source of MKI is those podded engine inlets and directly visible fans.
Type-30 not only has better power, lighter weight, but its inlet fans are made of such compounds which absorb most RF waves and bouncing effect is much reduced. That along with RAM coating of the inlet shall reduce MKI's RCS by multiple times over now.
Along with the above, if we replace the metallic skin with the new Carbon Nanotype Fibre Mat composite skin and External Weapons Pod, you are not only looking at a 4++ gen fighter but literally a 5- gen fighter.
Lets see how far we go with MKI upgrade and hope for the best.
What're the dimensions of Item 30 ? Have you checked to see if it's a drop fit into the MKI ?
It's designed to drop fit. Only the inlets need to be enlarged. And for Russians it would directly drop fit in current Su-57S/Su-35S/Su-30SM2. All of them are using AL-41F derivatives. They already have slighlty larger inlets.
Finally, MKI is coming to the level of Tejas on EW arena, good but not enough.
How many Type 30 are built so far?
Sometimes back I posted a quote by HVT sir, in which he categorically said that MKI with full fuel(internal) and 6 air to air missiles is detected by radars at the same range as a light fighter with full fuel(with EFTs) and 6 AA missiles. That itself means that MKI's RCS is not that what everyone assumes. It is not LO or even RO by any means but with RAM and powerful jammers, it's still very effective.
I also wrote about RCS reduction measures undertaken by Sukhoi in early 2000s. Found an old article which mentions the same by famous F-35 lover(lol) Mr. Bill Sweetman:
According to him Sukhoi applied these RCS reduction measures on about 100 Su-27s.
The result(of a fully air to air loaded Flanker), left without RAM, right with RAM:
OMG! Just look how the spikes are reduced in RAM coated Su-27 vs vanilla one. From 0 to 30 degree frontal arc, the RCS of loaded Su-27 is just barely above 0dbsm(1m2) with RAM treatment. That's what matters in BVR combat. All aspect low RCS is desired in a penetrating platform(like Raptor, Lightning 2 etc.)
Bill Sweetman further says:
Source of the above image and article: Russia's First (Kinda, Sorta) Stealthy Fighters
Our Su-30MKI has much improved RAM and more composites by both surface area and weight than vanilla Su-27. Even the very first version Su-30MKI MK1 had 6% composites by weight. It was supposed to increase with both phase 2 and 3 versions.
Just think what we're going to achieve in the Upgraded version with better engines, better RAM and better/more composites.
I also wrote about RCS reduction measures undertaken by Sukhoi in early 2000s. Found an old article which mentions the same by famous F-35 lover(lol) Mr. Bill Sweetman:
According to him Sukhoi applied these RCS reduction measures on about 100 Su-27s.
The result(of a fully air to air loaded Flanker), left without RAM, right with RAM:
OMG! Just look how the spikes are reduced in RAM coated Su-27 vs vanilla one. From 0 to 30 degree frontal arc, the RCS of loaded Su-27 is just barely above 0dbsm(1m2) with RAM treatment. That's what matters in BVR combat. All aspect low RCS is desired in a penetrating platform(like Raptor, Lightning 2 etc.)
Bill Sweetman further says:
Source of the above image and article: Russia's First (Kinda, Sorta) Stealthy Fighters
Our Su-30MKI has much improved RAM and more composites by both surface area and weight than vanilla Su-27. Even the very first version Su-30MKI MK1 had 6% composites by weight. It was supposed to increase with both phase 2 and 3 versions.
Just think what we're going to achieve in the Upgraded version with better engines, better RAM and better/more composites.
What will be the cost implications of all these upgrades? Even if theoretically we are able to these, it will be at least 2035 when the whole fleet is upgraded and by that time average age of the fleet will be 20-25 years. Is it worth the money and effort?
The radar and EW suite upgrades are must, but changing the skin may not be worth.
We should rather spend that money to buy few squadrons of Rafale.
The good thing is everything should be done in-house. The most expensive item is going to be the new engines. But if we want to make MKI potent, then we need to go the whole shebang and not half-hearted matters.
MKI upgrade will serve us quote long. Maybe even in the 50s, so most definitely.
The first two are most definitely happening. Changing the skin and new engines are speculations. The time will tell, let's wait and watch.
Both are different requirements. MKI, when it gets a powerful GaN based 1800+ TRM AESA radar and long range BVR missiles, is going to be very dangerous plane.
More Rafale is definitely needed. But upgrading the MKI to 4++(with AESA/QWIP IRST/EW) or 5-(with composite skin and new engines which allow supercruise in addition to other upgrades mentioned earlier) is paramount for our future safety.
Our stealth program is already behind schedule. By the time AMCA becomes operational around 2035, China will operate 700-800 or even more J-20s and hundreds of J-35s as well.
Even for a defensive war, more Rafales and MKI Super Upgrade is required. That's the bare minimum requirement. Of course, in my humble opinion. Others may feel free to disagree
