IAF is being asked to pay the cost of a KNAAPO built Su30 for MK1A with no prototypes yet.
So this is bound to raise eyebrows.
That's why the delay.
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
So this is bound to raise eyebrows.
That's why the delay.
According to PKS, Mk 1 lacks MAWS and the radar isn't AESA. In many ways, if confronted by an F-16, the result can be a replication of what we saw on Feb 27 th. Perhaps, you can add to my post @randomradio
Mk1 has an overall inferior avionics configuration compared to the Block 52. Only the radar and passive capabilities of the EW suite are comparable.
However if the Mk1 is equipped with the I-Derby ER, then it will be superior to the F-16 in A2A. If Astra Mk1, then it's equal. If Derby only, then inferior.
The HMDS+ASRAAM/R-73 combo makes it superior to the F-16, but that's not BVR. The PAF will need at least the Aim-9X to compete.
A significant advantage in favour of the LCA Mk1 is it has a much smaller RCS. So any perceived inferiority is complemented quite well by its RCS advantage.
Mk1A will be a significant step up compared to the F-16 because of the AESA radar and sensor fusion with the EW suite, along with other 5th gen features that even the best PAF F-16 will lack. I-Derby ER is practically assured for this configuration.
I wouldn't give too much importance to the Mk1 configuration, the Mk1A is the definitive version after all. The Mk1 will also get Mk1A equivalent upgrades eventually.
Let us assume a Balakot 2
And next day we are waiting for a PAF Retaliation
Now our Lesson from Balakot 1 was that we need to have more planes for CAPs
Between MiG 21 and Tejas who would you prefer for CAP
Mirages Airframes are also old
They should not be wasted for CAP
Sukhois operational cost is more
So a Mixed Package of 3 Sukhois and Tejas can cover entire LOC
@randomradio
@_Anonymous_
Tejas MK 1 Radar is comparable to Block 52 radar
And JF 17 AESA is still far away
IAF will have to give up its Obsession for
"Unobtainium" --( Borrowing this term from
BR ) ; otherwise IAF will Again Look Foolish
If its Sukhois are Dancing to Evade Amraams
Last edited:
Any air defence aircraft can perform CAP. And if you deny certain aircraft some missions, then the pilots won't get experience out of it. CAP is one of the most basic missions. First you have to learn how to perform CAP over your own territory. Later you will have to do the same over enemy territory. So how do you expect pilots to learn if you deny them CAP missions?
As for Mig-21 vs Tejas: For QRA I'd prefer Mig-21. For CAP, I'd prefer Tejas.
What the Mig-21s did during Balakot was QRA. The Mig-21 is unbeatable in this role because it can take to the air in less than half the time it takes the Tejas. Plus it has some insane acceleration and climb performance, which means you can pounce on your prey with little to no warning, like what Abhi did. For CAP, Tejas is better because of its lower RCS and superior avionics and weapons.
I am referring to IAF taking a million years to finalise Super Sukhoi package
While Forgetting the fact that its R 77 are out
Ranged by Amraam C5
The same BS is being repeated for MK 1 A
While MK 1 is getting ignored
MiG 21 airframes are soon going to
Dis integrate in the Air , if you keep flogging them
MiG 21 is our Majboori ie Compulsion
It can not even properly use R77 given its
Obsolete Radar
PAF lost F 16 to a R73 and its AmraamsC 5
Missed their target
So Next time they will Avoid Both these Incidents / Events
They will stay out of Range of an R 73
While Firing their Amraams from 40 km
MiG 21 wont play much of a Role next time
I am a critic of the IAF's slow upgrade decisions as well. They took more than 30 years to upgrade the M-2000 and Mig-29 also. We should have bought at least 2 squadrons of upgraded MKIs from 2015 with Irbis-E and 117S. I hope they make better decisions from now on.
The Mk1 is not good enough. If it wasn't for Mk1A, the IAF wouldn't have ordered the full fleet of 123 jets. Now there's potential for buying 180+ LCAs because of Mk1A. This is a good thing because you can assure yourself that the MWF will most definitely be delayed. The Mk1A saved us from imports of equivalent jets like Gripen E or F-16.
Mig-21's radar can use R-77 quite well. It may not be able to use its full range, but that's not what the Bison was upgraded for. For the role the Mig-21 is expected to do, the radar's range is more than enough.
Let us plan for the Next War which might happen in 2 years time
How many Rafales will be fully operational
By Feb 2021 -- Assuming next war in Feb 2021
The only accretions that I see in next 2 years is More Mk1s , and More Sukhois
Probably One Mig 29 squadron too
Mk 1 A serial production will start after 2022
Staying out of range of the R-73 is not up to them.
And if they fire their AMRAAMs from 40Km, then there's a good chance they will die first. Even if the R-77 has less range, it can easily be fired from 40Km also, and it is still faster and is more manoeuvrable than the AMRAAM.
Anyway, if they have come close enough to fire off their AMRAAMs at 40Km, then they are going to be well within the kill envelop of the Mig-21's R-73s.
The PAF failed to accomplish anything even when they had all the advantages, so what makes you think will happen if they actually hand whatever advantage they have over to us?
I was also wondering
Let us imagine
F16s fly low say at 1000 to 2000 feet at 20 km from LoC in POK , minimum height just to avoid the hills
And then suddenly it starts climbing to take a Shot at Su 30 with C5
Our Su 30 is at 10 K feet and 20 Km inside
Our side of LOC
Will it be able to Surprise our Su 30
Given that Amraam has to travel only 40 km
By Feb 2021, we will have a handful of Rafales, probably 3/4th of a squadron, 32 LCA Mk1 and the last few MKIs being delivered by HAL. That's about it. We will also have a few batteries of S-400 and the army will get some MRSAM and Akash S1.
We will be slightly better off than before. Not to mention, the units with new systems like Rafale, S-400 and MRSAM will need a few years to get good.
2023 will be a whole different story though. Full fleet of S-400 and MRSAMs, 2 squadrons of Rafale, 1 extra squadron of MKI and Mig-29 each etc. Hopefully a squadron of upgraded MKIs also.
If we want to Avoid C5 being aimed at Su 30 again , we must use MK1 with Derby Missiles for CAP at 2 different Altitudes
So that any aggressor at Any Altitude is unable to fire Amraams or SD 10
Look First Shoot first is Any day better than
Evading an Amraam coming at you
Also the GE 404 engine has a better MTBO than Al 31
What the Pakistanis actually did is of no real use. They got lucky that only 2 MKIs were there. In just a day or two, they will end up spending all their missiles with useless shots if they actually fought a war like they did.
Any jet will have to come within the R-77's range to kill. That's why even MICA with a lower range is deadly.
My Aim or Desire is to See an Absolutely
Immediate and Massive Retaliation to a PAF
Attack by Sukhois and Mirages and Mig 29s and Jaguars
If they have attacked at 9 30 Am
Then at 10 30 , we should be Raining Hell
This also includes Su 30 with Brahmos
Hence I want CAPs to be done by LCA Mk1
That is as far as possible
No Talks, or phone calls , just Instant Retaliation
You turned air combat into a street brawl.
If you want us to see massive retaliation, then you have to be prepared to stand in a line for rationed food the next morning.
Anyway, the Balakot strike and everything else that followed worked very well in our favour. There's nothing more to expect after that.
I-DerbyER and Astra Mk2 will meet or exceed that range. Or if we get K-77 missile.