The Russians have offered Su-35 also for MMRCA, along with Mig-35.
Aero India 2019: Russia offers MiG-35 and SU 35, ‘HAL preferred partner for Make in India’
Sukhoi Su-30MKI
- Thread starter Ashwin
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The Russians have offered Su-35 also for MMRCA, along with Mig-35.
Aero India 2019: Russia offers MiG-35 and SU 35, ‘HAL preferred partner for Make in India’
Su 35 is a heavy air dominance fighter, correct? Not sure how it will fit MMRCA unless they give us a MKI version of 35 which will be multi role. Then again it is a heavy class not a medium class which we are looking for.
It squeezed in because there was no 30T limit this time. But it will get filtered out during paper evaluations, so not such a problem. It won't win anyway even if it does get shortlisted due to LCC. Mig-35 has a much greater chance, and even that's saying a lot.
If Su30 MKI goes for upgradation then what will be it's new specifications? is there any structural change like use of composites? What are the options specially for below three
AESA, IRST and Engine.
@randomradio, @Ashwin
AESA, IRST and Engine.
@randomradio, @Ashwin
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India wants Russia to upgrade her Su30 first..
We ll customize over on that..
I think it ll take over 5 years minimum
Most definitely. Especially once MKI gets new BVR missiles and the ASRAAM.
Indian designed IRST. 117S engine and Russian Bars upgraded from PESA to AESA. Indian made EW suite as well.
And yeah, there will be some composites used, not a lot though.
I think the 117S engine is being upgraded with tech from either I-30 engine or Al-41F engine of Su-57. The engine going into Super Sukhoi will have more thrust than 117S engine.
What about the Timelines
You want HAL and DRDO to Screw up Even
The Su 30
Give them 5 Aircraft for Modifications
And see what comes out of it
That too within a Fixed Time Frame
The Russians are already flight testing the Su-30SM with the Su-35's 117S. And we will likely go for the same thing. They plan to finish testing this year, so it will then become the template for IAF's MKI modernisation. Their main goal is to standardize the Su-30SM and Su-35 fleet.
So they also plan to upgrade the Su-30SM with Irbis-E, and the Russians want us to choose the same radar for the Phase 1 upgrade instead of an AESA radar. If not Irbis-E, they also offered to simply upgrade the Bars itself with Irbis-E tech, like the twin 10KW TWTs, which we can also use on our other MKIs. Or a combination of both. It's because they claim a Bars AESA may take many years to develop and delay the program.
DRDO already has a few MKIs earmarked for R&D.
The main potential delay is the Russian AESA radar. Everything else is pretty much developed or will be completed by the time we want it operational.
The MLU is not one single contract, it's a lot of small contracts with different completion dates, and work began ages ago. For example, the EW suite and MAWS are practically already developed. HAL's program for the mission computer's been running since quite sometime. The cockpit has also been designed and prototypes have been built by DARE.
So what we will be waiting on is for the Russian side of the MLU. Airframe, engine and the radar. Hopefully we can say the airframe and engine are ready in 2020.
how good is Irbis E for our challeneges? i read something about hybrid PESA with manual focusing or so......could you please elaborate on that too ?
The Irbis was built from the Bars family. So it is a hybrid PESA, which means it has a single transmitter source, but has multiple receivers, unlike AESA which has multiple transmitter sources and multiple receivers. The transmitter come in two sizes for the Bars, 4.5KW and 7KW, whereas the Irbis-E has twin 10KW tubes. Which means while Bars can transmit only at up to 4.5KW or 7KW, the Irbis-E can transmit at up to 20KW. That's why Irbis-E has a detection range of 400Km against fighter sized targets, whereas Bars can do only around 200Km for the same kind of target.
Even though it's not an AESA radar, the Irbis-E is still far superior to anything we operate. So its induction in the IAF is most definitely of great benefit and is a very, very good upgrade option. The aircraft will still be very good even against aircraft equipped with AESA radars.
Why not go in for an Elta AESA? Where's the harm in it, assuming the Russians don't object to it?
Welcome back.
I think we have enough clout with the Russians to get a waiver there. I suspect the package itself hasn't been finalized by the IAF. Too many loose ends here.
Thanks, long story.
Anyways; maybe, maybe not, but it's hard to tell with them. They object to all sorts of basic requests from us, yet hardly raise a protest at much worse transgressions by others. They seem more concerned with India requesting to integrate a foreign missile on Su-30's than by China stealing entire designs.
This is not how someone treats a declared "friend" and massive, routine arms customer. So I don't know what we can get out of the Russians anymore. I'd personally like to see India just doing what it feels like to an extent now. Go to the Israelis and take their help in integrating missiles, or an AESA; let Russia do or say what it wants.