Sukhoi Su-30MKI

randomradio said:
The upgrade will be really fast if the engine is not changed.
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The engine needs to be changed to increase the agility of the fighter. The TVC of the present engines rotates to go down and up and do not move like paddles. The Su-35 engines have much refined TVC and that does not result in so much bleed of energy as the TVC of present engines do.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
The engine needs to be changed to increase the agility of the fighter. The TVC of the present engines rotates to go down and up and do not move like paddles. The Su-35 engines have much refined TVC and that does not result in so much bleed of energy as the TVC of present engines do.
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Could they change only the TVC part?
 
Best is to go through it in phases in modular expansion of the capabilities. First while the aircraft goes for its MLU, add and upgrade it's Self Protection Suite, and give its cockpit an update and service it's structure and be done. This needs to be started immediately.

Meanwhile get the work completed on its radar , newer weapons, etc.

And maybe engine if it fits our budget.
 
vstol Jockey said:
The engine needs to be changed to increase the agility of the fighter. The TVC of the present engines rotates to go down and up and do not move like paddles. The Su-35 engines have much refined TVC and that does not result in so much bleed of energy as the TVC of present engines do.
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Let's not forget that HVT is practically HAL's face now, so he has to peddle HAL's narrative.

Any 117S upgrade will see private sector participation, which the HAL loathes. Let's not forget that with just half the life of the 117S, the AL-31FP can be manufactured endlessly. Otoh, once the MLU brings the 117S in, no more engine change is required until the end of the MKI's life. We need only 600 117S compared to 1200 AL-31FPs.

And it's likely that HAL will push for the production of 2-4 squadrons of the "superior" Su-30SM2 with 117S engines in the near future. This is likely their gameplan.

Not just the TVC, adding 4 tons of extra thrust will definitely provide benefits to the Flanker. Along with twice the life, lesser maintenance, superior availability, greater onboard power, superior SFC, greater safety, higher red lines, regular upgrades since even the Russians operate it etc.

I hope the IAF looks into it before making a decision. The SM2 is largely ready by now. Even if the first 50+ jets don't get the 117S, they should seriously consider it for the rest.

Only the IAF should dismiss an engine upgrade, not GoI and definitely not HAL.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
The engine needs to be changed to increase the agility of the fighter. The TVC of the present engines rotates to go down and up and do not move like paddles. The Su-35 engines have much refined TVC and that does not result in so much bleed of energy as the TVC of present engines do.
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Harshavardhan Thakur had dismissed the idea of new engine for MKI, literally re engine program is dead then. I know that he is a HAL guy, but HAL do have a say now on what our armed forces wants.
Few months back you have said F18 SH Bk3 is on the way to IN through lease/ direct purchase. But in one tweet he dismissed that idea in favour for TEDBF, now no one even talking about F18SH.
 
Hydra said:
Harshavardhan Thakur had dismissed the idea of new engine for MKI, literally re engine program is dead then. I know that he is a HAL guy, but HAL do have a say now on what our armed forces wants.
Few months back you have said F18 SH Bk3 is on the way to IN through lease/ direct purchase. But in one tweet he dismissed that idea in favour for TEDBF, now no one even talking about F18SH.
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I had stated that SHF18 blk3 now with higher rated engines is best suited for our carriers and therefore it vl be selected ahead of rafale. And let HVT say anything, we have CATSA over our head. US will need to be calmed down.
 
vstol Jockey said:
I had stated that SHF18 blk3 now with higher rated engines is best suited for our carriers and therefore it vl be selected ahead of rafale. And let HVT say anything, we have CATSA over our head. US will need to be calmed down.
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If Rafale was American and SH B3 was French, we would still have to choose the SH because it's the only one that can reliably operate from Vikramaditya, not just Vikrant. CAATSA be damned then.
 
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vstol Jockey said:
I had stated that SHF18 blk3 now with higher rated engines is best suited for our carriers and therefore it vl be selected ahead of rafale. And let HVT say anything, we have CATSA over our head. US will need to be calmed down.
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Sir I am having few questions. if catsa is really matters now,how we can purchase toys from USA? What assuring we have that USA will not demand something else in future.
Secondly, instead of purchasing F18 for navy,why can't we go for 12 mor p8I ? USA will get buisness,IN can fullfill the original requirements of 24 P8s.
Lastly,it may be a stupid suggestion,there are lot of small corvettes & patrol vessels . These vessels are not that much capable too i think,they all pretty old . We can upgrade fleets with US littoral class vessels, they have superior speed, reasonably stealthy, pretty well armed. By doing so we can deploy our capable frigates & destroyers exclusively for Anti china operations.
 
I think Su 30 mki will follow Jaguar foot steps..

Too late to upgrade..
Initial batches will get retired..
Engine - whether to upgrade existing engine or replace with better engine..
Deal is no where in the sight..
 
Hydra said:
Sir I am having few questions. if catsa is really matters now,how we can purchase toys from USA? What assuring we have that USA will not demand something else in future.
Secondly, instead of purchasing F18 for navy,why can't we go for 12 mor p8I ? USA will get buisness,IN can fullfill the original requirements of 24 P8s.
Lastly,it may be a stupid suggestion,there are lot of small corvettes & patrol vessels . These vessels are not that much capable too i think,they all pretty old . We can upgrade fleets with US littoral class vessels, they have superior speed, reasonably stealthy, pretty well armed. By doing so we can deploy our capable frigates & destroyers exclusively for Anti china operations.
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What you have stated is what has been done till now. But going forward, the companies in USA want a pie of fighter business in India. They will force one of their products on us. IAF may not be keen at all on any of the US products as they prefer Rafale over anyother jet from US on offer to India. So the only service operates fighters in India is IN. In already has P-8I
 
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Sathya said:
I think Su 30 mki will follow Jaguar foot steps..

Too late to upgrade..
Initial batches will get retired..
Engine - whether to upgrade existing engine or replace with better engine..
Deal is no where in the sight..
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The MKI upgrade has an Indian component and Russian component. The Indian component is well underway. If even the radar is Indian, then the Russian component is unlikely to be big without an engine upgrade. Perhaps some composites and RAM, plumbing for wet stations etc.

Anyway, it won't go the Jaguar way, the Russians are still inducting Flankers, and will continue to do so for many years. And they will operate Flankers longer than we will. But it won't matter if the Russian component of the upgrade is insignificant because it's only going to reduce with time, minus the engine upgrade of course.
 
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Hydra said:
Sir I am having few questions. if catsa is really matters now,how we can purchase toys from USA? What assuring we have that USA will not demand something else in future.
Secondly, instead of purchasing F18 for navy,why can't we go for 12 mor p8I ? USA will get buisness,IN can fullfill the original requirements of 24 P8s.
Lastly,it may be a stupid suggestion,there are lot of small corvettes & patrol vessels . These vessels are not that much capable too i think,they all pretty old . We can upgrade fleets with US littoral class vessels, they have superior speed, reasonably stealthy, pretty well armed. By doing so we can deploy our capable frigates & destroyers exclusively for Anti china operations.
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Fighter jets are blackmail material due to the long term support needed to keep them functioning. With P-8I you cannot blackmail because you can get parts for the 737 from anywhere you want.
 
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randomradio said:
Anyway, it won't go the Jaguar way, the Russians are still inducting Flankers, and will continue to do so for many years. And they will operate Flankers longer than we will. But it won't matter if the Russian component of the upgrade is insignificant because it's only going to reduce with time, minus the engine upgrade of course.
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History says otherwise, Indian Airforce has a habit of using aircrafts for a prolonged period. MKI will outlive Russian flankers for sure.
 
randomradio said:
Not really. Only the Mig-21 because we didn't have a replacement, and that was out of compulsion, not choice.
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Jaguars, mig23 & 27, they all outlived Russian examples in Russia. We are operating huge fleets of MKI now, its highly likely that it will follow the 21's route.
MKI is the sole heavy category fighter, IAF simply will not let it go easily.
 
Picdelamirand-oil said:
And Jaguar?
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Jaguars and Mig-21s that we use today were produced at the same time, ie early 80s. But Mig-21's service life is 25 years, extended to 40 years. Jaguar's service life is 40 years and has been further extended for the older ones.

Also the production line closed in 2008. Our youngest Jaguar is not even 15 years old. 37 aircraft were made after reopening the line in 2000, with the last jet delivered in 2008.
 
Hydra said:
We are operating huge fleets of MKI now, its highly likely that it will follow the 21's route.
MKI is the sole heavy category fighter, IAF simply will not let it go easily.
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The IAF operates old jets today because a replacement is not yet available. Not because the IAF believes in old is gold.
 
randomradio said:
The IAF operates old jets today because a replacement is not yet available. Not because the IAF believes in old is gold.
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Do we have plan for any Heavy category fighter in future? SU57 plans for IAFis already shelved i beleive.
Its literally 21's scenario. In 21's case,No proper aircraft replacement program for a point intercepter. MKI's case, there is no proper plan for a heavy category long range fighter program to replace MkI.
 
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