Tejas Mk2 (Medium Weight Fighter) - News and discussions

If Developed, This Futuristic Tejas Variant Could Match IAF's Rafale Jets

Detailed concept drawings of the fighter, dubbed the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF), accessed by NDTV, are being studied by the Aeronautical Design Agency (ADA) and HAL which would eventually build the fighters if their development is funded by the government.

Written by Vishnu Som
Updated: January 05, 2020 14:07 IST
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Future twin engine variant of Tejas aircraft will feature folding wings for aircraft carrier deployment.

New Delhi: In twelve years from now, a twin engine variant of India's Tejas fighter could start replacing Russian built MiG-29K jets deployed on board the Indian Navy's aircraft carriers INS Vikramaditya and Vikrant which is yet to be inducted.

Detailed concept drawings of the fighter, dubbed the Twin Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF), accessed by NDTV, are being studied by the Aeronautical Design Agency (ADA) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) which would eventually build the fighters if their development is funded by the government. What's more, the design of an Air Force variant of the jet, the Omni Role Combat Aircraft (ORCA), with significant design differences, is also being studied. This variant would weigh a ton less than the Naval variant since it would not need heavy reinforced landing gear required for operations from the deck of an aircraft carrier.

Sources close to the project have told NDTV that the total design and development costs for prototypes of the aircraft ''would cost less than the Rs.12,780 crore India Specific Enhancement package'' signed between India and France towards customising 36 Rafale fighters being inducted into the Indian Air Force.

''The total design and development costs for twin engine variants of the Tejas fighter would cost less than Rs.13,000 crores with each fighter for the Navy costing in the range of Rs. 538 crores.'' The Indian Air Force variant of the fighter would cost between Rs 35 crore and Rs.71 crores less than the Navy variant. The development time-scale for the project has been pegged at six years from the time initial funding has been provided.

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Prototype of Twin Engine Tejas variant could be completed in six years of project funding.

Project designers say they could ''very comfortably develop'' the new twin engine Tejas variant based on the experience they have gained in testing the Naval prototype of the Tejas fighter. This prototype is expected to land on the deck of India's aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya, for the first time within the next few weeks. The prototype is powered by a single US-built General Electric F404-GE-IN20 turbofan engine which is not seen to be powerful enough to justify serial manufacture of a Naval Tejas in its present avatar other than in very limited numbers. The significantly larger twin engine Tejas now being proposed would be fitted with two more powerful General Electric F414 engines and would have a significantly higher weapons payload and range. The additional thrust provided by two engines would also guarantee a larger safety margin for pilots while taking off and landing in hot and humid tropical weather conditions out at sea in the Arabian Sea and Bay of Bengal.

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Single-engine Navy Tejas prototype being test will land to INS Vikramaditya soon.

Weighing 23 tonnes, the Navy Twin Engine Deck Based fighter would be significantly larger than the 13.5 ton Tejas Mk-1 fighter which has entered squadron service with the Indian Air Force and the 17.5 ton Tejas Mk-2 which is meant to be inducted into the Indian Air Force from 2030. The fighter would be in the size of the MiG-29K currently being operated by the Indian Navy on its aircraft carrier, the INS Vikramaditya and would have the ability of carrying a weapons payload of nine tonnes. It would feature folding wings to save space on the deck of aircraft carriers. The jet would likely have a top speed in the range of Mach 1.6 or just under 2,000 kilometres per hour.

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The twin engine Tejas variant would have a top speed of Mach 1.6 and carry a nine tonne weapons payload.

Both the Navy Twin Engine Deck Based fighter and the Air Force Omni Role Fighter would host several indigenous sensors and avionics which are now at an advanced stage of development. This includes an Active Electronically Scanned Radar (AESA) which can simultaneously track targets in the air and out at sea or over land with great precision. All the fighters would be built with made in India data links and communication systems which would enable the jets in a formation to securely exchange critical sensor information during a mission. A host of made-in-India weapons including long range variant of the Astra air to air missile which has recently completed tests would arm the jets.

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The futuristic Tejas variants would be armed with weapons including the indigenous Astra air-to-air missile.

Project designers point out that none of the future variants of the Tejas now being studied are a part of the Navy or Air Force's present procurement plans. ''More than 750 aircraft will need replacement between 2030 and 2050.'' By 2040, several older aircraft in service with the Indian Air Force, including the Sukhoi 30MKI, presently the cutting edge, would need to retire. Development of a larger, twin engine variant of the Tejas, designers feel, is an incremental step forward as they simultaneously proceed with the design and development of a made-in-India stealth fighter called the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA), both larger, more capable and more expensive than variants of the Tejas. The AMCA is expected to start entering squadron service with the IAF from 2040 if funding is secured.

''A twin engine variant of the Tejas would be in the class of the Rafale, extremely nimble with excellent sensor fusion,'' say designers working on the plans for the futuristic fighter. ''The jet would be extremely nimble with excellent sensor fusion. The fact that this would be entirely designed and developed in India would be a huge boost for our ambitions in being an aerospace power.''

If Developed, This Futuristic Tejas Variant Could Match IAF's Rafale Jets
 
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So it turns out ORCA is indeed the air force version. A direct Rafale competitor.

It is also an acceptance that making a TRUE
FIFTH Gen plane like AMCA is highly
Ambitious.

It is better to go for Twin Engined Tejas

It will be a 4.5 Gen with Much more Range and Internal fuel

The engine can be the Kaveri variant K 10

But Control laws Will Also need to be updated

Will IAF ask for a more powerful Radar

So many " Known UNKNOWNS " :ROFLMAO:
How long do you think it'd take before we have a FOC ORCA? 15 years from now? & that's just an FOC version not a full squadron. Which would be around 2040 timelines. What will the IAF do till then with the nos it'd be retiring in the interim?

If approved , they will only make 40 odd Single Engined MK 2 and then Go for Twin
Engined MK 2

Just like , At present we are making 40 MK 1
And 83 MK 1 A
 
@randomradio

I believe that if 10 years from now we need
to buy RUSSIAN HYPERSONIC Glide Vehicle Technology , they will ask us to first
buy PAK FA

Anyway Russians are Regularly inviting us to see their improved versions of PAK FA

IAF too will soon start comparing PAK FA
with AMCA
 
How long do you think it'd take before we have a FOC ORCA? 15 years from now? & that's just an FOC version not a full squadron. Which would be around 2040 timelines. What will the IAF do till then with the nos it'd be retiring in the interim?

The figure going around is 12 years for TEDBF, since it's a clean sheet design.

But for ORCA it's 6 years, since it's only a modification of the MWF. So 3 years to build the jet and 3 years to fly it, from the time FSED clearance is given, which is the same as MWF's. So, if clearance is given this year, we will see first squadron induction 9 years later, that's 2029.

AMCA Mk1 is 12 years from IOC, so 2032. And Mk2 could take as long as 2037.
 
In the wet dreams of some indian people. The record of Indian aeronautic field isn't rich enough to be so confident. With no offense. Just look Tejas long long road....

Tejas took long time being the first one. The adaption of the know how from LCA will be tested in next 5+ years by coming out with MK1A and MK2 with desired results. If they are delivering, we will call the Tejas programme a complete success and we are good at the aeronautic field.
 
Vishnu Som (@VishnuNDTV) Tweeted:
My story - Lots of exclusive images and details on the twin engine Tejas.

If Developed, This Futuristic Tejas Variant Could Match IAF's Rafale Jets

If Developed, This Futuristic Tejas Variant Could Match IAF's Rafale Jets

Shared via NDTV News App (Android - https://t.co/c2uSlWlb3b | iPhone - https://t.co/GN49E8tUM6 ) ( )
By the time it gets developed rafsle would get better than present version. We need to stop this non sense of comparing the paper aircraft with current ones.
Make the aircraft that we need. No need to aim for rafsle . Just aim for LCA twin engine.
 
It is also an acceptance that making a TRUE
FIFTH Gen plane like AMCA is highly
Ambitious.

It is better to go for Twin Engined Tejas

It will be a 4.5 Gen with Much more Range and Internal fuel

The engine can be the Kaveri variant K 10

But Control laws Will Also need to be updated

Will IAF ask for a more powerful Radar

So many " Known UNKNOWNS " :ROFLMAO:

AMCA Mk1 and TEDBF will take roughly the same time to develop. It's an admission that building a carrier jet is a lot harder than AMCA, hence the 4th gen TEDBF.

ORCA is directly a competitor to Rafale.

If approved , they will only make 40 odd Single Engined MK 2 and then Go for Twin
Engined MK 2

Just like , At present we are making 40 MK 1
And 83 MK 1 A

Are you talking about MWF? No, the requirement is still 200 for MWF. AMCA and ORCA will not compete with MWF.
@randomradio

I believe that if 10 years from now we need
to buy RUSSIAN HYPERSONIC Glide Vehicle Technology , they will ask us to first
buy PAK FA

Anyway Russians are Regularly inviting us to see their improved versions of PAK FA

IAF too will soon start comparing PAK FA
with AMCA

We don't need Russia's HGV. And stuff like this will not be up for export anyway.
 
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We don't need Russia's HGV. And stuff like this will not be up for export anyway.

At one time even S 400 , and Tu 22 were also not for Sale

If Oil Prices remain stagnant due to Increased usage of ELECTRIC vehicles
Then Russian economy would need Cash

In any case for INDIA
HGVs look more important than SLBMs

We need HGV technology
 
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By the time it gets developed rafsle would get better than present version. We need to stop this non sense of comparing the paper aircraft with current ones.
Make the aircraft that we need. No need to aim for rafsle . Just aim for LCA twin engine.

The Twin Engined MCA
will also see several versions
 
The weapon package on this thing is pretty much the same as was displayed for the Jaguar MAX :
1578217517775.png

What are the 4 white missiles near the centreline ? They seem to have external intakes. SFDR derivitive ? Also there is a cruise missile on the centreline and a AShM on the wing. RAFAEL RECCE Lite pod fro targeting.
Jaguar MAX.jpg

I hope they work some signature suppression elements onto it. Those rounded intakes are going to be a problem.
 
At one time even S 400 , and Tu 22 were also not for Sale

At all times, stuff being made for Russian forces is always made for the Russian forces first. This is followed up by an export version.

Tu-22 was first exported back in the 70s. Same rule as above, export version has to be made before it's exported.

If Oil Prices remain stagnant due to Increased usage of ELECTRIC vehicles
Then Russian economy would need Cash

In any case for INDIA
HGVs look more important than SLBMs

We need HGV technology

We don't need Russian HGV, nobody's HGV is needed.
 
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Reactions: vingensys
At all times, stuff being made for Russian forces is always made for the Russian forces first. This is followed up by an export version.

Tu-22 was first exported back in the 70s. Same rule as above, export version has to be made before it's exported.



We don't need Russian HGV, nobody's HGV is needed.

So will DRDO achieve HGV technology
 
More than New Aircraft we need to increase
The Stocks of Missiles and Air to Ground Stand Off PGMs.

For A Decapitation strike on All
LY 80 ,HQ and Spada SAMs of
"Goat Fookers " Next door :ROFLMAO:
 
We have already seen the efficiency of your Dassault Aviation. 6 years to deliver 36 jets.
He he he.
1) The actual rate of production of Rafale is 22/year. Can easily be upgrade to 33. The real and sole question is : do India has enough money to purchase more than 12 Rafale/year ? If so, the 36 could have been delivered in 4 and 1/4 years.
2) How many times for producting 36 Tejas from the beginning ? (and without an indian engine and radar...) . Answer : 3 years for raw materials and long delay items + 36/8 plane by year = 7.5 years.

But it's true that India made huge progress. I think you just made an error by simultaneously developping a new frame (Tejas) with its new engine (Kaveri). Just imagine a Tejas studied from the beginning with F404 or EJ200 : it would have been FOC since years.
An engine (and a radar) take 10 years to be fine tuned, even for the very speciallized company. A frame takes only 4 to 5 years. It was an error to link the two efforts.

Have a very nice day.
 
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But it's true that India made huge progress. I think you just made an error by simultaneously developping a new frame (Tejas) with its new engine (Kaveri). Just imagine a Tejas studied from the beginning with F404 or EJ200 : it would have been FOC since years.
An engine (and a radar) take 10 years to be fine tuned, even for the very speciallized company. A frame takes only 4 to 5 years. It was an error to link the two efforts.

Have a very nice day.

That's why it's good that we are doing what the Russians and Chinese are also doing, ie, building a few squadrons of AMCA with old engines.
By 2040 we would be inducted 4.5th generation fighter while USA would be retiring 5th generation one lol.

AMCA will be much higher than 5th gen.
 
How? If you're referring to ACM Bhadauriya's claim of it firing lasers, etc. we'd be inducting this in the 2050's if not later.

MWF on its own will carry 5th gen avionics and will also include 6th gen features like being optionally manned. Podded lasers will also be deployed long before AMCA comes into the picture.
 
By 2040 we would be inducted 4.5th generation fighter while USA would be retiring 5th generation one lol.
We do not need to compete with the USA. First we need to be self sufficient. Even with USA Fielding f35 s they still have a sizeable force of 4.5 gen fighters.

China started with cheap fighters. Even now had junk fighters which can't compete with USA. But it's getting there.

Similar approach for India is fine.