The indigenous one is vapourware. Right now, only navy is interested in TEDBF. IAF wants to import a proven aircraft, no development. IAF will be supporting AMCA development instead.
Su 35 is a proven aircraft. Until the advent of ORCA Tejas will be a proven aircraft. Since ORCA will share most of the components from AMCA it will be an excellent platform for testing the techs plus it will also help in the development of AMCA.
I agree ORCA is a vapourware right now but so does all the projects in the starting.
What he means to say is we shouldn't be buying the Su-35.
No sir he was supporting the acquisition of SU 35 in MMRCA and it was I who has raised some contention. ( yes me!!!).
No, the timeline of induction for both jets are not the same. I think you have misunderstood what I said. MMRCA will get signed between 2023 and 2025. Any Su-57 signature will only happen after 2030, and induction will start well after MMRCA is almost complete.
It doesn't matter. As I have said earlier we should select Su 35 in the meantime. Not that Russians are going to offer the level of TOT required in MMRCA for Su 57 anyways.
But I caution you against sticking to the timeline of 2030. As soon as WS 15 engines will become operational expect an order for SU57 and maybe even before that.
Su-35 is impossible for IAF. MKI is better. Even the Russians are pouring more money into their MKI. Some Russian fanboys will not agree, but facts are facts.
Russia has already bought 132 Su 35s. That is a big number for an ailing economy like Russia. As far as upgrades are concerned every airforce do that. Buying new aircraft doesn't mean that we leave older in their state until their lifespan. Similarly upgrading older doesn't mean that newer is inferior.
In comparison Su 35 has more composite material and more stealthy
(and maneuvarable) design compared to mki and if we combine it with the electronics of SU 57 no aircraft is going to match it including mki.
And it is not the question of superiority instead the question of newer airframe. We are going to need Flankers beyond 2060 but by then the production line of them will long be dead. Hence the need of induction of newer airframe now.
Su-57 doesn't exist. It will exist only after 2025. ORCA will not exist, it's not even a real design.
Yeah surely it was some ghost I have seen escorting Russian President or the recent order of 76 piece by Russian airforce is of some racing cars.
Fact is the most of the components of
Su 57 are fully ready like it's avionics suite, Airframe with RAM etc. Only thing that was hindering it from going into full production was its engine. But now that problem is solved too by production 30 engines going into integration phase. By 2021 we will have a very potent aircraft.
Talking about ORCA the design could always be improved. We just need to give it some initial funding. With all required technologies in place it will sure see the light of day within 6 years of the commencement of the project.
MKI costs $55M. Mk1A costs $45M. That's $100M total. And these costs are without maintenance, infrastructure etc.
Mk 1a costs 34.2 million. And Rafale costs 100 million without maintenance infrastructure etc.
We could get one ORCA and one Su 35 in that cost. You choose which one would be superior one single Rafale or combo of flanker and orca.
How does paying for something we do not need lower costs?
We need Su 35. I have already given the reason. In addition to it Chinese are going to field hundreds of heavy fighters in our Northern border. We need an effective counter with good numbers.
There is no truth to what's said in the article. You obviously do not know, but the Russians are forcing the IAF to adopt Russian Su-35 standards for our upgrade program. What the Russians want us to do is cancel MMRCA and buy 126 Su-35 instead. That's also why they are now participating in the MMRCA tender. They just want a bakra to buy their jet, so they are coming up with whatever excuses they can throw at us.
And I see no harm in selecting Su 35 for mmrca. As far as excuse is concerned we could easily check wheather buying it is reducing our cost of upgrading mki or not.
Think logically. The most expensive parts of the MKI upgrade program will be radar and engine. The development of both has already been paid for by Russia, so they will most definitely charge us royalty on it anyway, there's no escaping that. Let's assume each engine will cost us $5M, and all 265 MKIs will get the new engine, this will put the total bill at $2.7B. We only need 2 engines for each jet for the rest of its life. Let's assume the radar costs $3M each, which is $800M. So the total cost is $3.5B. Furthermore, you can be sure all other assorted costs will be about $1.5B for the Russians alone. This should include cost of royalty, ToT, infrastructure, other technologies etc. $5B in total, spread over 20 years. That's $250M a year. Even if you save 10%, that's $225M a year. So you will pay about $10-15B buying 126 Su-35s in order to save $25M a year for the upgrade. Oh, and wait, after 20 years Su-35 has to be upgraded too. So what will you recommend then, buy Su-57, so that Su-35's upgrade is cheaper? And then after that, buy Su-67 to make Su-57's upgrade cheaper? Do you see where your argument is headed towards?
Apart from reducing the cost SU 35s has its own utility too described by me earlier. And to be clear I strongly advocate against buying anymore heavy jets from Russia after Su 57. The scenario you have presented could easily be avoided as when we will have full TOT of Su 35 we will be able to easily upgrade them by indigenous systems requiring no Russian help.
The MKI will be upgraded in batches, probably 50-100 each, and each new batch will carry new technologies. Just like Jaguar DARIN I, II, III etc. So there's no point buying the Su-35 just so the first batch is only a little bit cheaper.
I reiterate my statement of other utilities of Su 35 apart from reducing the cost of upgradation of mki. Furthermore buying SU 57 will reduce the cost of upgrading next batches of mki.
Anyway, we only buy stuff when it makes sense to buy it. We do not buy something just to make something else cheaper. Our bureaucracy has never worked that way. Rather, prices go up when you do something like what you've asked for. It's because we negotiate for things on an individual basis and not the collective.
And for me buying Su 35 perfectly makes sense. I hope IAF too will think this way.
How does a plane that doesn't exist compare with one that does? Even HAL can't say this statement.
In the interview given to Vishnu Som ADA chief has talked about high service ceiling and more greater speed. And since it will share it's all other techs from AMCA program my assumption hold ground.
I don't think you know what you're talking about.
In fact I know. Flankers will easily fly far higher than Rafales in a skirmish hence the BVR advantage of Rafale will reduce to nothing. In fact it will be Flankers who would be able to target Rafales from longer range. And in WVR it is known fact that Flankers can easily crush Rafales. So air superiority rests with Flankers.
Not to mention more powerful radar of flanker can easily pick Rafale from longer distance than Rafale picking the flanker.
Again, Su-57 doesn't exist. Let's talk about it when it actually exists. No, flying a prototype around doesn't mean it exists. It comes into existence when it enters full squadron service. Like how LCA came into existence only in 2018-19. Su-57 will enter full squadron service only sometime after 2023. Right now it's in the same stage as the F-35 was back in 2016.
Russians have ordered 76 jets. Algeria has also ordered 13 jets. It is perfectly operational if you are willing to compromise on its engine aspect. Even that too is now going to resolve in a year.
Also, we can't simply buy Rafale's electronics. Those don't come separate from the aircraft. And no, we won't integrate Su-57 electronics in an Indian designed aircraft either. If ORCA becomes a reality, it will only carry Indian electronics.
I am perfectly fine with Indian electronics.
Coupled with Su 35 it will negate any advantage that rafale has whatsoever wet ORCA.
Your first part doesn't make sense to me.
