The Collision that Formed India: What genetics reveals about Indian origins

[vstol Jockey]

The Indic and Arabic DNA came in the last 1350 years.

An early post if mine already alludes to that.

And how the absence of strict endogamy in the laiety (post Islam especially) contributed to that admixture further.

Back to the paper.

Cheers, Doc

Sorry bro, I have also read this genetic theory in detail posted by you which is this thread. The longer the period of mixing, larger will be the share of population who will show that DNA either Y or M2.
Let me tell you something very surprising. Islam spread across Gibralter within 50years but it took them 400 years to come to India as invaders. They were in Malabar as traders within 20-25 years. They came to Sindh in 712 and were thrown out within 20 years. They won the first battle against Hindu Shahi dynasty of Afghanistan in 1025 in Punjab and then marched on to Baharaich. No turkic or Persian ever had the courage to invade India again for next 150 years. His army had a very large contigent of converted Persians.

 

[vsdoc]

Sorry bro, I have also read this genetic theory in detail posted by you which is this thread. The longer the period of mixing, larger will be the share of population who will show that DNA either Y or M2.
Let me tell you something very surprising. Islam spread across Gibralter within 50years but it took them 400 years to come to India as invaders. They were in Malabar as traders within 20-25 years. They came to Sindh in 712 and were thrown out within 20 years. They won the first battle against Hindu Shahi dynasty of Afghanistan in 1025 in Punjab and then marched on to Baharaich. No turkic or Persian ever had the courage to invade India again for next 150 years. His army had a very large contigent of converted Persians.

Dear sir, the paper please.

A small titbit for the readers.

Vsdoc knows one of the protagonists and worked with him professionally for many years.

And is very aware of the dynamics of the research being discussed midway through the essay.

The weaponisation of .... ?

More (if I dare) later.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Janardan Shukla]

I am late in the debate and can't read the whole thing. I just want to ask one point from @vsdoc that are you saying that Zoroastrians are the ancestors of Aryans???

 

[Sandeep0159]

Of course.

This is documented clearly. Written records. In the words of our priests.

India has always been the land of our sons.

It's why for 5000 years no Persian army marched on India.

Nor the reverse.

Cheers, Doc

To be honest with you,sir. I am sorry if I am being rude, but Indians of Vedic era considered Parsis who left the Vedic fold as 'Mlecchas' or non- Vedic savages. Yes, you are listed among the Mleccha tribes in our literature. Also, India was bounded by Mountains on three sides- with the snowy Hindu Kush and arid Balochistan forming natural boundaries on our west as corroborated by Arrian, Strabo etc. The reason we didn't invade u is because, we didn't need to! Sir, my land is a land which has everything, all resources which are required for humanity to prosper. We didn't have a need to invade Persia. Also, we have immense spiritual wealth with seers of highest order, Kings who are just and brave, traders who are the wisest. We had good trade relations with all the contemporary civilisations too.

Also India is not a land which will bow before invaders, be it Persians or Arabs. There's a reason why India survived and Persia fell. Still do u think we'd bow before Persians had ur kings marched towards us? I think u know abt India more than a Persian or an Arab. Just think.

India is NOT the land of ur sons, rather u are the sons of Bharata hence u came back after ur home was ravaged by Islamic hordes.

 

[vsdoc]

I am late in the debate and can't read the whole thing. I just want to ask one point from @vsdoc that are you saying that Zoroastrians are the ancestors of Aryans???

I am saying that if you want to build an alternative narrative to bolster internal pride and nationalism for political change and gains, in the face of science and a wider pan-global theory, then being a billion plus helps.

Cheers, Doc

 

[vstol Jockey]

I am late in the debate and can't read the whole thing. I just want to ask one point from @vsdoc that are you saying that Zoroastrians are the ancestors of Aryans???

Exactly. This is what he is trying to say. You are a Shukla. Any relation with Rishi Garg, son of Rishi Bhardawj?
@vsdpoc, read about Battle of Bahraich below.
Battle of Bahraich
We did not let even one *censored* escape.

 

[Janardan Shukla]

Exactly. This is what he is trying to say. You are a Shukla. Any relation with Rishi Garg, son of Rishi Bhardawj?
@vsdpoc, read about Battle of Bahraich below.
Battle of Bahraich
We did not let even one *censored* escape.

Yes, My gotta is Garg. All Shuklas have same gotta.

 

[Janardan Shukla]

*Gotra,. Damn this autocorrect.

 

[vstol Jockey]

India of vedic days was the India which was adrift and it is called Jambudvip because it is a dvip even today. What is a dvip? a land mass surrounded on all sides by water. Aryavrat had its limits starting with Indus and Brahmputra rivers which originate from Mansarover lake and on othersides it has seas and an ocean. We are still a dvip/Island. That is Jambudvip. That is the Vedic Bharatvarsha.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Yes, My gotta is Garg. All Shuklas have same gotta.

Bhai ho aap hamaray. Lekin rishtay main hum aapkay Chacha hain. lol.

 

[vsdoc]

To be honest with you,sir. I am sorry if I am being rude, but Indians of Vedic era considered Parsis who left the Vedic fold as 'Mlecchas' or non- Vedic savages. Yes, you are listed among the Mleccha tribes in our literature. Also, India was bounded by Mountains on three sides- with the snowy Hindu Kush and arid Balochistan forming natural boundaries on our west as corroborated by Arrian, Strabo etc. The reason we didn't invade u is because, we didn't need to! Sir, my land is a land which has everything, all resources which are required for humanity to prosper. We didn't have a need to invade Persia. Also, we have immense spiritual wealth with seers of highest order, Kings who are just and brave, traders who are the wisest. We had good trade relations with all the contemporary civilisations too.

Also India is not a land which will bow before invaders, be it Persians or Arabs. There's a reason why India survived and Persia fell. Still do u think we'd bow before Persians had ur kings marched towards us? I think u know abt India more than a Persian or an Arab. Just think.

India is NOT the land of ur sons, rather u are the sons of Bharata hence u came back after ur home was ravaged by Islamic hordes.

Bete, who is the son and who the father is what the thread is about.

What's clear and accepted by both sides is that we are not brothers.

Also, you (Indics) are the D'heras for our side (analogous to your Mlecchas).

Cheers, Doc

 

[vstol Jockey]

What's clear and accepted by both sides is that we are not brothers.

My goodness!!! You are wrong. What we are saying is that original Persians are infact our brothers. You are pushing a different narrative.

 

[Janardan Shukla]

I am saying that if you want to build an alternative narrative to bolster internal pride and nationalism for political change and gains, in the face of science and a wider pan-global theory, then being a billion plus helps.

Cheers, Doc

We can be billion plus just by promoting our ideology with logic, beleive me once we do that all other ideologies will vanish. But the main problem is that even Dhamrmic population don't know about their Dharma enough to counter arguments against it. Then this fake narrative of Bramhins exploiting Dalits also fuels the division among us. But surely we will counter all that. As far as Parsons are concerned according to my knowledge they worship Agni and in our Veda the very first Shloka is dedicated to Agni. But we hold knowledge of more gods and surely of supreme one the Parbramha. So with this knowledge we can infer that Parsons could be a branch of Sanatan Dharma and descendant of Aryans who parted their ways from us not the other way round.

 

[Janardan Shukla]

Bhai ho aap hamaray. Lekin rishtay main hum aapkay Chacha hain. lol.

Bas aashirvaad banay rakhiega cha-cha ji.

 

[_Anonymous_]

Bete, who is the son and who the father is what the thread is about.

What's clear and accepted by both sides is that we are not brothers.

Also, you (Indics) are the D'heras for our side (analogous to your Mlecchas).

Cheers, Doc

Isn't the irony delicious, dickraa? You consider Hindus D'hera who in turn consider you M'leccha. Yet after meeting your nemesis in Nehevand and you being surrounded by a sea of Islam, the only non Islamic region in your vicinity was India more specifically Gujarat where Persian Zoroastrian traders and merchants would've been plying their trade and would've settled there too sending word back home that if their religion and way of life had to preserved, the journey to the land of the D'hera would have to be made. Voila! Here you are a millenium later . Still trumpeting your superiority in the face of dwindling numbers and way of life that in all likelihood within a few generations will be like Gone with the wind.

 

[Sandeep0159]

Also, you (Indics) are the D'heras fir our side (analogous to your Mlecchas).

That's what I am saying, sir. There has been a clash of epic proportions. And it is natural for both the warring groups to pull jabs at each other, considering themselves right. It has been among all groups, not just Vedics and Parsis.
But, one thing which u can't change is the fact that we have been given as much responsibility by our ancestors as u were given by yours- to protect our respective civilisational heritage.

Vedics hold the key to R1a haplogroup which is passed onto generations along with the culture, the key which changes the way history is taught.
J2 is known to be of Western Asian/Anatolian origin which is found in majority of Parsis. So,the divide is not just philosophical now, but genetic too. And we know where the Indo- European homeland research leads to in future. Parsis are effectively out of the equation coz only few have the R1a marker or Yamnaya marker as the circles call it. It is necessary for u to build up ur numbers if u want Zoroastrian faith to survive another millennia. Vedic dharma is safe for a considerably distant future.

 

[vsdoc]

My goodness!!! You are wrong. What we are saying is that original Persians are infact our brothers. You are pushing a different narrative.

I meant both sides push a sequential narrative if migration. Not coexistence and cohabitation temporally in the same time point.

Hence either father or son.

Neither side accepts the brother possibility of a steppes branch out.

Cheers, Doc

 

[vstol Jockey]

That's what I am saying, sir. There has been a clash of epic proportions. And it is natural for both the warring groups to pull jabs at each other, considering themselves right. It has been among all groups, not just Vedics and Parsis.
But, one thing which u can't change is the fact that we have been given as much responsibility by our ancestors as u were given by yours- to protect our respective civilisational heritage.

Vedics hold the key to R1a haplogroup which is passed onto generations along with the culture, the key which changes the way history is taught.
J2 is known to be of Western Asian/Anatolian origin which is found in majority of Parsis. So,the divide is not just philosophical now, but genetic too. And we know where the Indo- European homeland research leads to in future. Parsis are effectively out of the equation coz only few have the R1a marker or Yamnaya marker as the circles call it. It is necessary for u to build up ur numbers if u want Zoroastrian faith to survive another millennia. Vedic dharma is safe for a considerably distant future.

Vedic Dharma will once again spread out to the world and the world will follow only Vedic Dharma as its sole religion. Islam is a cult and christianity has become business.

 

[vsdoc]

Isn't the irony delicious, dickraa? You consider Hindus D'hera who in turn consider you M'leccha. Yet after meeting your nemesis in Nehevand and you being surrounded by a sea of Islam, the only non Islamic region in your vicinity was India more specifically Gujarat where Persian Zoroastrian traders and merchants would've been plying their trade and would've settled there too sending word back home that if their religion and way of life had to preserved, the journey to the land of the D'hera would have to be made. Voila! Here you are a millenium later . Still trumpeting your superiority in the face of dwindling numbers and way of life that in all likelihood within a few generations will be like Gone with the wind.

Somewhat like that minus the poetic licence fingering.

China had not fallen either.

Our emperor Yezdgird's sons fled with families and entourage there and set up the royal court in exile.

The Tocharian and Sojagdian were Zoroastrian extreme eastern fringes of our empire traditionally for over 1500 years.

Iranic.

But look at things from our perspective. 1200 years ago.

A sea escape was easier and quicker though way more dangerous than one the long way around overland.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Sandeep0159]

Neither side accepts the brother possibility of a steppes branch out.

Even today we maintain the original homeland of Aryans or watever the west call us is Saraswati belt. Civilisations sprung along river belts and it is an established fact. Most probably the home of Aryans/ Urheimat is Kashmir, Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan, Gujarat/Sindh. With Kashmir as the most sacred land of Aryavarta. So sacred it is that even those students of Gurukuls from our holiest city Varanasi used to BOW towards the direction of Kashmira in reverance after their formal education coz it is the home of Sharda/ Maa Saraswati. So no, Steppes origin is farce. Kashmir it must be.
Panini is from Swat(named after river Suvastu),in modern day Khyber Pakhtunkwa. Urheimat is Bharat. We went out of India and mixed with locals over there. That's the reason why there never were references of Steppes as our home in Vedas, but we revered Saraswati like some 50 plus times in the same Vedas. Even if the consensus is between Ghagra-Hakkar in India and Helmand river in Afghanistan, still it validates Indigenous Aryan theory. Because, Afghanistan was Hindu for millennia before Zoroastrianism,Buddhism and later Islam took over the reigns.