Twin-Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF)
- Thread starter Gautam
- Start date
How many Mig29K in the inventory in 2030 ? with 3 losses in one year it's a hot case.
I wonder who out here was strenuously arguing that we will go in for MRCBF come what may in the next few years, hopefully, by 2022.
Hope this kills all news of the Rafale - M & the SH for good. Meanwhile, in the time tested Indian tradition of drawing every small drop from the sugar cane by squeezing it repeatedly from the machine to the detriment of the motor & taking it ahead like in the the Indian armed forces we won't be retiring our MiG-29Ks. No sir. Like most of the MiG-21s & Sea Harriers before, we'd crash them. All of them.
There's something about our carrier & carriee based operations if anyone's keen on history. It's been jinxed from the start. Beginning 1971 , when the boiler gave way & INS Vikrant had to be towed back.
TEDBF for the 2030s leaves between 10 and 20 years to develop it.
In Indian time it's between 1 year and 1 quarter and 2 and a half years. It seems impossible to me.
The ADA has time till 2035. The IN has reposed trust in them. I think they'd deliver. As to the efficacy of the delivery platform, I'm not too sure. But the end user - the IN is & the IN knows what's it doing.TEDBF for the 2030s leaves between 10 and 20 years to develop it.
In Indian time it's between 1 year and 1 quarter and 2 and a half years. It seems impossible to me.
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They can always buy replacements. (Ignoring the inflated attrition numbers.)
Commonality with AMCA and LCA Mk2 makes it easier. But you already know that.TEDBF for the 2030s leaves between 10 and 20 years to develop it.
In Indian time it's between 1 year and 1 quarter and 2 and a half years. It seems impossible to me.
The hope of exporting Rafale M is now what's impossible. Just like the fanboy numbers of 200 + Rafales in India.
Fanboy?
India needs about 200-250 medium fighter aircrafts: IAF Chief Arup Raha
Arup Raha said the Air Force needs more middleweight fighters; indicates competition is open.
It's a requirement. If it's not Rafale, then it will be something else in that class, although there's really nothing else in that class, hence the Rafale.
Arup Raha having had access to all the qualities of the Rafale, it is normal that he became a fan boy.Fanboy?
India needs about 200-250 medium fighter aircrafts: IAF Chief Arup Raha
Arup Raha said the Air Force needs more middleweight fighters; indicates competition is open.economictimes.indiatimes.com
It's a requirement. If it's not Rafale, then it will be something else in that class, although there's really nothing else in that class, hence the Rafale.
200-300 MRFAs need not necessarily comprise all Rafales. There's the MWF coming up too. The IAF has committed to inducting 200 nos of them.Arup Raha having had access to all the qualities of the Rafale, it is normal that he became a fan boy.
AMCA? This project
- In October 2008, the Indian Air Force asked the ADA to prepare a detailed project report on the development of an MCA incorporating stealth features
- Second design proposal was first showcased at Aero India 2009
- In March 2010, the aircraft was renamed as Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA)
- In April 2010, the Indian Air Force Chief of Air Staff issued the Air Staff requirements (ASR) for the AMCA
- In October 2010, the Indian Government released ₹100 crore to prepare feasibility studies in 18 months
- In November 2010, the ADA sought ₹9,000 crore (approximately €1.5 billion/US$2 billion) of funding for the development of the AMCA
- The aircraft concept was finalized and shown to the Indian Air Force in 2012
- Project Definition commenced from February 2013
- In April 2013, the Ministry of Defence had put the project on hold,
- ETMD phase was started on 7 January 2014
- Project definition phase was fully completed by February 2014
- The conceptual design of AMCA was carried out till 2015
- On 7 March 2015 a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) through Government to Government (G-to-G) route between India and Russia was signed in which various Russian firms agreed to help Indian firms in various technological fields which included the Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE)
- First flight test of the prototype aircraft was scheduled to take place by 2017
- It was announced that the AMCA will be developed by 2018 with the first flight scheduled for 2018.
- Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman on April 4, 2018 initiate AMCA Technology Demonstration Phase
- Project entered the detailed design phase in February 2019
- The aircraft was reported to be under Detailed Design Phase in February 2019
- Chief of Indian air staff, RKS Bhadauria in a briefing in October 2019 said DRDO "must" make the project happen
- As of 2019, defense ministry has been seeking approval from Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) to go ahead with the Prototype Development Phase.
- Design phase expected to be completed by end of 2019
- ADA in consultation with the IAF will try to freeze the design of AMCA by June 2020
- First flight planned for 2024
- AMCA will reportedly be unveiled in 2024.
- The first flight is expected in 2025 or 2026
- Aim to start production by 2028.
It's not me who said "although there's really nothing else in that class, hence the Rafale"
The dates are not sequential though. The project did not get approval because govt decided to wait for ADA to finish LCA and then approve the project. And after FGFA was cancelled, they changed ASR.
It's not me who said "although there's really nothing else in that class, hence the Rafale"
Yep. Even after spending so much time on this forum, some people still do not know what's "class" difference between aircraft. It's a lost cause.
"By all means, marry. If you get a good wife, you will be happy. If you get a bad one, you will be a philosopher.” SocratesIt's not me who said "although there's really nothing else in that class, hence the Rafale"
There's a difference between what one can wish for & what one gets. To find out one must be married. Life as a bachelor is all about being optimistic, fanciful, preparing endless wish lists & setting a date for it to happen too. Like 2022. Till life is rudely interrupted by the Chinese virus or marriage. Then one sees the MRCBF vaporise. One accepts the HTT-30 unequivocally. Why, even 30 odd Rafales can equal 300, what with it's excellent sortie rates. It's all a question of perspective brought about by an epiphany most often but not always caused by marriage.
Only the ignorant will bring in the unrealated.
www.theweek.in
December 3, 2020
Speaking to media ahead of Navy Day (December 4), Admiral Karambir maintained that they will move a formal case to the government for a third aircraft carrier after collecting technical information. "We have sent out certain RFIs (Request for Information) to gather information. Once we have collated them we will go in for the AON (Acceptance of Necessity). We all know that air operations are integral to naval operations and air power at sea is required here and now," Admiral Karabir said in response to a question by THE WEEK.
We are very clear that air power at sea is required. If you are a nation that has aspirations and wants to be a $5 trillion economy and do not want to be tethered to the shores...aircraft carriers are absolutely essential," Admiral Karambir said.
Long story short:
Navy: We don't need MRCBF, IAC-1 and Viky will operate TEDBF in the future. But we need a third carrier, and a new MRNF, "Multirole Naval Fighter", will be needed for it.
It's the ol' switcheroo. The requirement is renamed and delayed slightly. Militaries in democracies have done that for decades.
MRCA > MMRCA > SE MII > MRFA... All are just one program.
Ignorants can't read between the lines though. They have difficulty keeping up even after spelling it out. Too bad.
For those who do not know, TEDBF is going to be a STOBAR fighter jet, whereas the third carrier will be CATOBAR capable. So, yes, MRCBF is dead, since it's going to be relaunced as a new program in the near future, subject to the clearance of the third carrier. I'm hoping, as I always have, the successor to the MRCBF will have true next gen aircraft competing for the prize.
And for all concerned, especially the ignorants, since they tend to have very bad memory, I have wanted the MRCBF cancelled for a better part of a decade and have repeated that many times in multiple forums. So...
Third aircraft carrier absolutely necessary, says Navy Chief
"We are very clear that air power at sea is required"
Speaking to media ahead of Navy Day (December 4), Admiral Karambir maintained that they will move a formal case to the government for a third aircraft carrier after collecting technical information. "We have sent out certain RFIs (Request for Information) to gather information. Once we have collated them we will go in for the AON (Acceptance of Necessity). We all know that air operations are integral to naval operations and air power at sea is required here and now," Admiral Karabir said in response to a question by THE WEEK.
We are very clear that air power at sea is required. If you are a nation that has aspirations and wants to be a $5 trillion economy and do not want to be tethered to the shores...aircraft carriers are absolutely essential," Admiral Karambir said.
Long story short:
Navy: We don't need MRCBF, IAC-1 and Viky will operate TEDBF in the future. But we need a third carrier, and a new MRNF, "Multirole Naval Fighter", will be needed for it.
It's the ol' switcheroo. The requirement is renamed and delayed slightly. Militaries in democracies have done that for decades.
MRCA > MMRCA > SE MII > MRFA... All are just one program.
Ignorants can't read between the lines though. They have difficulty keeping up even after spelling it out. Too bad.
For those who do not know, TEDBF is going to be a STOBAR fighter jet, whereas the third carrier will be CATOBAR capable. So, yes, MRCBF is dead, since it's going to be relaunced as a new program in the near future, subject to the clearance of the third carrier. I'm hoping, as I always have, the successor to the MRCBF will have true next gen aircraft competing for the prize.
And for all concerned, especially the ignorants, since they tend to have very bad memory, I have wanted the MRCBF cancelled for a better part of a decade and have repeated that many times in multiple forums. So...
Fail to see your point. Didn't work on Rafale start on early 1970's to introduction in 2001 with bare-born features?
AMCA is required post 2030 to replace Mirage and Falcrums. TEDBF is closer to LCA Mk2 with all the 4th gen features. No AMCA specific features are required here.
Yes, fanboy. He said medium you see Rafale. LCA mk2 aka MWF is medium and so is AMCA. (Pro tip, It's in the name)Fanboy?
India needs about 200-250 medium fighter aircrafts: IAF Chief Arup Raha
Arup Raha said the Air Force needs more middleweight fighters; indicates competition is open.
It's a requirement. If it's not Rafale, then it will be something else in that class, although there's really nothing else in that class, hence the Rafale.
Let me break it to you, It's just impossible to have 200+ Rafales india at this point.
Say it daily, might help with withdrawal symptoms.
Didn't know ACM Raha was a fanboy. I learn new things every day.
Anyway, "he said medium, he sees Rafale".
When he made the comment, in 2016, MWF didn't even exist.
Let's get the actual quote, shall we?
India needs 200-250 more Rafale fighters, 36 not enough: IAF chief Arup Raha
The Air Chief Marshal also rued that the tender for the much-needed “force multiplier” mid air refuellers had to be withdrawn.
indianexpress.com
“But we have just ordered 36 aircraft and we require more aircraft in this middle weight category to give entire spectrum of capability,” he said,
He refers to the Rafale and other twin-engine aircraft of its class. You see, there is another middle weight category, and that was the Gripen/F-16 back during Raha's days, which is the main reason he visited Sweden.
So how can Raha be talking about MWF when it didn't exist until 2 years after he left office? Common sense, dude.