Twin-Engine Deck Based Fighter (TEDBF)

randomradio said:
Right, the lift itself is just 10m wide, so it won't go through anyway.
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Rafale1.jpg

The Rafale without its wingtip in the Viki's lift Drawing to scale
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IAC1 lifts are even easier to use
 
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vstol Jockey said:
It reduces the length of the aircraft allowing more aircraft to be carried in the hangar.
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I think you have to close & open radome manually, it will affect aircraft's swift deployment.
Also electronic equipment is exposed to outside moisture content, and what will happen if you are lifting the aircraft to deck while radome open during rain ? You can't avoid lifting aircraft during rain when requirements arises.
 
Hydra said:
I think you have to close & open radome manually, it will affect aircraft's swift deployment.
Also electronic equipment is exposed to outside moisture content, and what will happen if you are lifting the aircraft to deck while radome open during rain ? You can't avoid lifting aircraft during rain when requirements arises.
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@Picdelamirand-oil how will you address these two issues?
1)How will you lift the aircraft during raining with an open radome?
2) how much time it will take to open & clossing the radome manually? I believe you have to tilt radome manually, f18 & mig29k folding wing is machine controlled and it will not take much time.
 
Hydra said:
@Picdelamirand-oil how will you address these two issues?
1)How will you lift the aircraft during raining with an open radome?
2) how much time it will take to open & clossing the radome manually? I believe you have to tilt radome manually, f18 & mig29k folding wing is machine controlled and it will not take much time.
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It is not obligatory to open the Radome in order to use the lift, but if you don't open it you have to be very careful about the position of the plane and in the end it can take longer than opening it.
So we open it in good weather and leave it closed in bad weather.
The opening and closing is designed to be fast, less than 5 minutes in total, and it can be done at the same time as you fix the weapons under the wings.
Likewise the assembly and disassembly of the wingtips, which is similar to the assembly and disassembly of the pylons under the wings, can be done in hidden time.
Have you ever seen what it's like to make a pit stop in a Formula 1 race: it must be similar when you operate a Rafale on an aircraft carrier.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
It is not obligatory to open the Radome in order to use the lift, but if you don't open it you have to be very careful about the position of the plane and in the end it can take longer than opening it.
So we open it in good weather and leave it closed in bad weather.
The opening and closing is designed to be fast, less than 5 minutes in total, and it can be done at the same time as you fix the weapons under the wings.
Likewise the assembly and disassembly of the wingtips, which is similar to the assembly and disassembly of the pylons under the wings, can be done in hidden time.
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IN reluctant to our own ALH naval version,the reason is it tail is taking bit long time to unfold.
 
vstol Jockey said:
It reduces the length of the aircraft allowing more aircraft to be carried in the hangar.
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Area used by an F-18SH: 18.31 * 9;3 = 170.3 m2
One Rafale : 15.3 * 10.9 = 166.8 m2
An open nose Rafale: 14 * 10.9 = 152.6 m2 and the Rafale can be put head to toe.
Hydra said:
Do Rafale folds it's wing?
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No it was a joke! Could be an improvment of Rafale done by DRAL for Carrier.
 
The aircraft are taken into the hangar and than the radomes are folded. This is not done on deck but in an area free of salt air or the sea. The operational fighters are kept on deck and only during extreme bad weather conditions, we remove them from the deck to be housed in the hangar. This happens when sea state goes beyond 8 and the wave height hits the launch deck. This normally happens in roaring 40s when the weather is bad.
Operations from a deck are very very different compared to land operations. The deck of a carrier is like a bee hive. Every bee must know its role and job. Any lapse results in disaster.
 
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Picdelamirand-oil said:
Rafale1.jpg

The Rafale without its wingtip in the Viki's lift Drawing to scale
​
IAC1 lifts are even easier to use
Click to expand...

How are they going to push the aircraft in that way?

I think if both carriers operate Rafale, then both will carry 6 or 8 each and will be placed on the deck rather than in the hangar. Only in case hangar servicing is required, they will be taken in.
 
randomradio said:
How are they going to push the aircraft in that way?

I think if both carriers operate Rafale, then both will carry 6 or 8 each and will be placed on the deck rather than in the hangar. Only in case hangar servicing is required, they will be taken in.
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If french people are professional,they should come up with a traditional solutions like folded wing. Boeing has uprated it's engine and really working hard to perfect ski jump,that type of professionalism lacks with Dassault & French. No wonder why Rafale is getting minimalistic interest/orders from customers.
 
Hydra said:
If french people are professional,they should come up with a traditional solutions like folded wing. Boeing has uprated it's engine and really working hard to perfect ski jump,that type of professionalism lacks with Dassault & French. No wonder why Rafale is getting minimalistic interest/orders from customers.
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SH's folded wing is also pointless, it's only usable on IAC-1. Also folding the Rafale's wings will degrade its aerodynamics.

Rather it's the IN that didn't think of designing a 12-14m wide elevator. They got suckered into a design that can only use Mig-29K or N-LCA.

As for the Rafale itself, it's difficult to sell. The aircraft is far too advanced for most countries, which also makes it more expensive so it loses tenders by default, unless countries follow the Indian system of procurement with a shortlist. And for countries that are interested, the US actively works to sabotage the French. They even force countries to give up on French equipment after it is bought. They have attempted it with UAE and Qatar, and seem to have succeeded in Taiwan, when it comes to the Mirage 2000.
 
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randomradio said:
SH's folded wing is also pointless, it's only usable on IAC-1. Also folding the Rafale's wings will degrade its aerodynamics.

Rather it's the IN that didn't think of designing a 12-14m wide elevator. They got suckered into a design that can only use Mig-29K or N-LCA.
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On the Vikrant, the lifts are lateral (like those of the Charles-de-Gaulle) and measure 14 x 10 m, it is a little small but planes can overtake on the sea. The nose of the Rafale can overhang the sea by almost 5 m, which makes it possible to put the wings almost in the length of the lift and to keep the wingtips. In addition, one of the two wings can also overtake.
 
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