Ukraine - Russia Conflict
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According to all your arguments up to this point it is.Being anti-something and being Nazi are not the same.
It's good to see how you're removing that big fat line between being an anti-Russian Ukrainian and being Nazi. Your ability to simplify complex matters is frankly not surprising at this point.
So let me speak your language.
A long time ago, @Hellfire pointed out that I was centrist. I took an internet test (American-themed) and found out that I am one box to the right of Spider-Man. So would me being anti-Jenny Sparks or anti-Hawkman make me Nazi?
But then you do not realise that the Nazis are where Darkseid is. Joker and Darkseid represent fringe elements on the left and right. No one should be that level of crazy. But the Azovs are. And you are lumping the poor Ukrainians alongside Nazis.
When we compare India and Pakistan, the Indian govt is where Batman is.Don't blame me, it worked out that way. In fact, I would say the BJP fluctuates between Cyclops and Batman. And Pak govt is where Sinestro is. And they fluctuate between Sinestro and Darkseid very frequently. And they pretend to be Jenny Sparks when they go around begging for money.
It's not a black and white world.
I'm not lumping Ukrainians in with Nazis, you are, remember? Nazis simply don't have Jewish members, or any ethnic minority members. It's against their ideology. Russia has earned hatred in Ukraine, earned it hard for over decades through oppression, ethnic cleansing, political interference, poisonings, annexing and invasion, and trying to erase all of that by using the Nazi card is an argument that nobody is going to entertain for even half a second. Putin referred to removing the Nazis in Kyiv, the Azov battalion are not even in Kyiv for a start (clue's in the name). Everything he says is horseshit.
Ukrainian elections are internationally monitored, Putin's are not. He has invaded a democracy unnecessarily and crushed his own people's right to criticise it. It really is that simple.
No OSCE observers for Russian parliamentary elections following major limitations
WARSAW/COPENHAGEN, 4 August 2021 — The OSCE will not be able to send observers for the upcoming elections to the Duma due to limitations imposed by Russian Federation authorities on the election observation, leaders of the OSCE’s Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODHIR) and...
www.osce.org
The greatest truth can always be found in the net direction of migration. It isn't towards Russia. And after 1990, all Warsaw pact states and former Soviet SSRs moved towards the EU and NATO, not Russia.
And BTW, Batman was British.
I find myself asking whether it's possible to put one or two or three of those things on a little UGV to troll the Russians with.
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A figure that seems to be supported by Al Jazeera (who I guess are broadly neutral) - 3.3m fled, 6.5m internally displaced.
Russia-Ukraine war in maps and charts: Live Tracker
As the Russian offensive enters its 165th week, we track where battles are taking place and the human cost of the war.
Be gentle when my chocolate princes comes in and gives you a piece of her mind. She'll start out by calling you paddy but don't take it personal it just means she likes you.Yes and the Cholas oppressed the whole of South East Asia. Till now, no justice has been given. And the Roman's made slaves fight in the colosseum. Till now, no justice has ben given. And the Vikings pillaged the UK, till now no justice has been given.
Please *censored* off with your 80-year-old historical deflections. If you want to bring them up in another thread, fine *censored* off there and do it. Stalin sent tens of millions to Siberian gulags where they were starved and worked to death even after WWII. Mao also starved tens of millions in peacetime. Your malnutrition death rate hasn't exactly been great even in the 21st century TBH. Chandra-Bose sided with the enemy in WWII, so does that make you Nazis too? Maybe China has the right to invade you therefore huh? This entire conversation has been beaten to death a million times and has nothing to do with this thread.
@Ashwin Please remove this utter shit, starting from here:
Ukraine - Russia Conflict
www.strategicfront.org
It's a clear and unprovoked attempt at deflection that has nothing at all to do with Ukraine or current politics, not even slightly. Probably a Russian/Chinese troll.
Don't you love the sanctimonious of some of the folks in here? Everyone has uncleaned hands including native Americans. It must be miserable existence to always see yourself as a victim.
The Telegraph UK reported that British volunteer fighters aka mercenaries may have triggered deadly strike on the Ukrainian base which left dozens, if not hundreds of mercenaries dead — after their phones were detected.
“The Telegraph has learned that 12 to 14 phone numbers starting with +44 (UK numbers) were visible to surveillance equipment before the missile strike”
www.telegraph.co.uk
“The Telegraph has learned that 12 to 14 phone numbers starting with +44 (UK numbers) were visible to surveillance equipment before the missile strike”
British volunteer fighters may have triggered deadly strike on Ukrainian base after their phones were detected
The Telegraph has learned that 12 to 14 phone numbers starting with +44 were visible to surveillance equipment before the missile strike
www.telegraph.co.uk
Er... You are comparing German Nazis with Ukrainian Nazis. They are not the same.
Nazis have become very influential in Zelensky's govt. Many have ended up in high positions in Kiev.
Er... Yes, away from the invaders. Which is common sense. And even Russia offered to join the EU, but was rejected.
And BTW, Batman was British.
No. Batman is American. Alfred is British. You seem to have forgotten Britain's place in the modern world.
As I've said before, Javelin does not care what tank you put in front of it. The design spec was not for T-80s and T-90s, because that is too low a bar. It was designed to take out any tank, period, even 70t western tanks. Russian tanks are like 40t or 48 for the T-14, they are basically a tub of butter.
They can try advance with infantry if they want, see how that goes LOL. Then instead of using a Javelin or NLAW with $175k and £20k unit costs respectively, they can just use a bullet. Don't forget that everything sent so far represents the lowest tier of NATO weaponry. Imagine if Russia was up against Patriot PAC-2 and PAC-3 MSE, Aegis on-shore, NATO C4ISR, AEWs, JSTARS, F-22s, F-35s, F-15EXs, Rafales, Typhoons, Tomahawks, Storm Shadows, ATACMS, sensor-fused munitions from MLRS rocket and cluster bombs, IMS (smart mines), NATO EW, M1A2SEPV3s, Challenger IIIs, Leopard 2s etc. It's a real shame SDI didn't go ahead proper, because then he would be.
So why has Putin sent his own troops into combat in this way?
They just shouldn't have, but it's not like the rest of Russia actually got a choice.
If you care so much about Nazis, what do you make of this guy?
Look at his tattoos. Would you say he is a Nazi? If that helps, he named his company "Wagner" specifically because that was Hitler's favorite composer. That's his reason.
You can also see him, but with a shirt on, on these photos:
Yes, the ones getting invaded are just as bad as the invaders. They're guilty of letting themselves get invaded after all!
Have fun speaking Ukrainian in the Donbass, or Tatar in Crimea.
When?
I remember Euro politicians, notably in Italy and Germany, inviting Russia to eventually join the EU; and Russia's ambassador replying it was not in the interests of Russia to do such a thing. After all, if Russia were to join the EU, it'd be just one country among others, with as much political weight in the Commission as Luxembourg or Croatia... Only in the EU Parliament would Russia get to have a big weight, but that would still not be more than Germany.
Your version of a Nazi simply isn't a Nazi, it's just someone who hates invaders.
A Jew leading Nazis, now I've heard everything. You need to switch RT off and extract your head from whence your buttocks.
Migrants were moving that way before the war too. Even from Russia. I'm unaware of Russia offering to join the EU, but the EU did strongly support Russia's accession to the WTO. Russia criticises admissions to the EU too, as well as NATO.
Thomas (US) and Martha Wayne (UK) gave birth to Bruce in London, as per the Pennyworth series.
The reasons matter, not who supports who.
This is a war the West provoked, and the Russians reacted. Sheep only see the reaction part, not the provoking part. Intelligent people see the provoking part too. Ukraine was Russia's red line and the West should have accepted that. The only way for the West to redeem itself and get back on the high horse is to send troops into Ukraine.
It depends on what's considered minority. Is 30% of the population a minority?
In India, you get an official language tag when the speakers hit the 60 million mark out of roughly 1.4 billion people. That's how low the benchmark is in India. But if Ukraine decided to practically begin the process of disenfranchisement of 30% of their population, then they ceased being a democracy since 2019.
Provoked how? Simply by being there? NATO and the EU just being there provokes Putin. Ukraine has wanted away for a long time, Putin should have just accepted that. Commit troops and risk nuclear war? No thanks. And even if it didn't start a nuclear war, the opportunity would no doubt be seized by China and DPRK to invade Taiwan and ROK respectively, and India would remain neutral. And then about 20 years later you'd be learning mandarin and our leaders would be questioning why Hindus are being re-educated in camps en masse, which we have no right to do of course, because of the Bengal Famine..... And China would use _Anonymous_ as an example to prove you were all being re-educated to stop you f*cking cows or something, and then someone like Russell Brand would question why we're supporting cow f*ckers.
Sure, even modern Western tanks today are Cold War era tanks. Whether the T-14 can survive the Javelin or not, I don't know, but you can be sure the Russians have catered to the design.
Er... Are you trying to say NATO is better equipped than Russia, because I agree, and it's not a debate. Russia is still Cold War era. But all their new weapons meant to defeat what you've listed are yet to begin induction.
SDI was for comic books. That's why it was cancelled.
They went in thinking it won't take more than a week. Because a sensible, seasoned politician would have surrendered with some Hirohito type clauses as soon as he realised NATO and the US have tricked him. But clown show Zelensky is now going to deliver to the Russians the same demands they made before the conflict instead of signing a better deal right away.
The idiot was literally thinking NATO will come in and liberate even the occupied territories of Ukraine. And the Russians failed to anticipate the level of idiot Zelensky would demonstrate.
A smarter person than Zelensky would have offered the same deal as Finland, offered autonomy to Donbas and converted Crimea into a disputed region. The Russians would have relented.
It's a lesson for countries on how to choose their leaders.
If you care so much about Nazis, what do you make of this guy?
Look at his tattoos. Would you say he is a Nazi? If that helps, he named his company "Wagner" specifically because that was Hitler's favorite composer. That's his reason.
You can also see him, but with a shirt on, on these photos:
Yes. Is he working for an autocratic govt or a democratic govt? And is the West training him and arming him?
So Russia has Nazis in their govt, does that mean the West should support Nazis in their own and allied govts? Will the US Army give a General rank to the Grand Wizard of the KKK in case the Russians invade the US?
For provoking war when it wasn't necessary, of course. For hiding behind civilians, of course. For not allowing civilians to exit war zones, of course. For not allowing foreign civilians to leave even when they were at the exit gate, of course. Both sides are bad guys.
They don't claim to be a democracy.
NATO I guess.
Ex-Nato head says Putin wanted to join alliance early on in his rule
George Robertson recalls Russian president did not want to wait in line with ‘countries that don’t matter’
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When a nuclear power has a red line, you don't cross it. It's that simple.
Which is why the only way for the West to morally redeem itself is to put troops on the ground in Ukraine, because that's why Ukraine is being invaded, ie, the fear of NATO presence in Ukraine.
You don't have to worry about India. We have the ability to protect ourselves. Ukraine doesn't. So you should worry about them. Worry about Taiwan too, because you have only verbally promised to protect them, just as you did Ukraine, but now the Taiwanese have stopped buying into that. So if Taiwan is invaded and the US doesn't respond actively, yeah, you can say you killed your moral high horse, to the point that it didn't even exist.
That's Russia's narrative. Which is that anytime a country decides to attach itself to the West and escape Russia, it can only be because of Western interferences. Because it's impossible for people to have their own agency, and it's also impossible to not want to be oppressed by Russia. I mean, read that shit:
Russification of Ukraine - Wikipedia
Obviously that's cool and good and people would want more of it, right? When the Ukrainians declared independence in 1917, certainly it was already a nefarious plot from the West.
Something you might find interesting:
No, that's just a pretext. Like the Azov nazis. It's something that sounds logical, but that's not what Putin actually cares about.
The truth is, he's not afraid of NATO because he knows that NATO will not attack Russia anyway. What he's afraid of is the EU. If Ukraine joins and EU and becomes a prosperous democracy that stamps down on corruption, it's going to give ideas to Russians. And that, not NATO, is what he's truly afraid of. Since the first Orange Revolution he has done all he can to dismiss popular uprisings as sinister American plots, because of course, why else could people revolt against a corrupt dictator that oppresses them? Obviously the CIA is the only possible answer.
Ukraine is being invaded so as to make sure Russians are reminded that Slavic people can only know tyranny.
Ukrainian historian: Putin made two huge miscalculations
A Ukrainian historian wrote in an opinion piece in The New York Times on Sunday that Russian President Vladimir Putin made two major miscalculations regarding the invasion of Ukraine.Yaroslav Hrytsak, a historian and professor at the Ukrainian Catholic University, wrote that "Russian aggression...
Dude, I don't know where your head is if you think the armour on a 48t tank is stronger than that on 70t tanks.
And when they are enlisted we'll have something even better.
The lasers were, they were deliberately dupes to get the Soviets wasting money and it worked. Brilliant Pebbles combined with 3-4 interceptor types was absolutely plausible was absolutely plausible.
Is he?
Putin failed to anticipate that someone would actually stand up to him you mean. Putin had no right to make such requests.
Those that can choose their leaders you mean.
And what if their red line says they own territory that they don't, and then they redraw the red line? There is no crossing of any lines here, Ukraine is an independent country it chose its own future and unsurprisingly moved in the same direction as Poland, Romania, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, East Germany etc. There was no one crossing any lines. No one crossed the Russian border, except for Russians leaving of course.
Until you don't. You don't understand what a moral high horse is. The West's morals are not affected by China invading Taiwan, that is China's morals on display. That said, Taiwan should become a nuclear power as fast as they can.