Ukraine - Russia Conflict

You lot should read this.


It (the war) has no moral or rational basis.
Yeah, I called it a stupid war.
The percentage of UK citizens who spoke a different, or had parents/grandparents who did, would be similarly high. They are all British citizens, but when they come here they're expected to learn English. How long have those Russians had to learn Ukrainian? I'd wager a lot more time. And it's not like it's that different to Russian anyway. It's like learning American English vs British English FFS. It's a null point. I can't believe so many people are trying to push this as a reason for mass muder.

:ROFLMAO:

Maybe all of Europe should learn Spanish instead of their respective languages.

Nope, that's just your definition of it I'm afraid. When you say 'you', who do you mean exactly? In the case of Russia it's basically one guy, as per Saddam's Iraq, or Kim Jong-Un's DPRK. So one guy is sovereign, and you think that equates to national sovereignty? Yeah, okay. :ROFLMAO:

Oh sure, just because you say so.

They hadn't lost their sovereignty because they were able to leave. If only people in Russia and the DPRK found it so easy to leave. The EU was just a trade deal that mutated badly while nobody was looking.

Nope, one guy's sovereignty does not equal national sovereignty. His people have zero ability to influence anything. What does it matter to them whether an invader comes in and calls the shots instead? Especially if the invader actually sets up a democracy and allows them to choose.

The UK should rejoin the EU. Who cares about sovereignty when you have democracy?
 
Then what about Turkey killing of Kurds? Its still a NATO country.

Erdogan - Turkey
Saddam - Iraq

Kurds - Turkey and Iraq

Only Kurds from Iraq must be protected. Turkish Kurds can be killed en masse. Don't you know how the system works?

It's like arguing with feminists.
 
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You lot should read this.


It (the war) has no moral or rational basis.
Yeah, I called it a stupid war.
Swarajyamag - sounds legit. :ROFLMAO: Russia hasn't been winning anything for months.

:ROFLMAO:

Maybe all of Europe should learn Spanish instead of their respective languages.
If they're living in Spain then they should.

The UK should rejoin the EU. Who cares about sovereignty when you have democracy?
Maybe it should, in light of Russian aggression. However, this point simply isn't relevant to what I said. I'm talking about an individual country not a Treaty which that country signed, which is what the EU is. What is the value of one person having sovereignty to everyone else in that country? He's used his sovereignty to f*ck things up for the other 145m people living there.
 
Your country is homogeneous, not Ukraine, not India.
There's Cornish, Welsh, Scots, and Scottish Gaelic as minority languages in the UK.

You lot should read this.

With winter approaching, logic would dictate that the west stop supporting Ukraine, so that a ceasefire be negotiated, and peace talks begin. But the west’s first response to this new phase of the war has been to speed up the supply of more arms to Kiev.
I hate this non-logic. Russia is engaged in a war of genocide. We find new mass graves in liberated territories every week. And people are talking as if you could negotiate peace. You don't negotiate peace with a totalitarian regime that has embarked on a genocidal project. The only way to obtain a ceasefire and peace is to kick Russia out of Ukraine. There is no other way. You can't let Russia keep Ukrainian territories because then they'll just use it to launch another attack.
This is unfortunate, since it is patently obvious that perpetuating this proxy conflict will only bring greater misery to Ukraine (not to mention an inexorable worsening of the terrible economic and energy crises which have gripped Europe in a fatal clasp since the summer).
What will bring greater misery to Ukraine is letting Russia keep parts of it.

Those words merit repetition now because they succinctly define Russia’s unchanged political and military objectives even as on date:
  • ‘Any further expansion of the North Atlantic alliance’s infrastructure or the ongoing efforts to gain a military foothold of the Ukrainian territory are unacceptable for us’
For the 114518754846456454545456312154511111999477th time, NATO WAS NOT EXPANDING INTO UKRAINE. So that's a false pretext.
  • ‘The purpose of this operation is to protect people who, for eight years now, have been facing humiliation and genocide perpetrated by the Kiev regime [in those provinces with an ethnic-Russian majority]’
Oh yeah, Russia is so eager to protect these people that they press-gang them into charging Ukrainian positions, with Wagner mercs in their back to shoot them if they try to retreat, desert, or surrender.
  • ‘We will seek to demilitarise and denazify Ukraine’
The aim of demilitarization is to make further conquest easier. As for denazification, as they have explained, their definition of a Nazi is an Ukrainian who identifies as Ukrainian instead of identifying as Russian. They have redefined nazi to mean "non-Russian". So their "denazification" is a genocide.

And once again I will remind everyone here that the actual neo-Nazi scene in Russia is much larger than in Ukraine. Even had an openly nazi party with the third reich flag as its emblem at the Parliament of Russia. Now it has merged into a party calling itself the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia, which is neither liberal nor democratic...
  • ‘It is not our plan to occupy the Ukrainian territory’
I should hope everyone would see how laughable that claim is by now. So any source that parrots it and pretend the Russians are sincere is, at best, a very deluded source; at worst just a Russian shill shamelessly lying.
  • ‘The current events have nothing to do with a desire to infringe on the interests of Ukraine and the Ukrainian people. They are connected with the defending Russia from those who have taken Ukraine hostage and are trying to use it against our country and our people’
I should hope everyone would see how laughable that claim is by now. So any source that parrots it and pretend the Russians are sincere is, at best, a very deluded source; at worst just a Russian shill shamelessly lying. (bis)
  • ‘At the end of the day, the future of Russia is in the hands of its multi-ethnic people, as has always been the case in our history. This means that the decisions that I made will be executed, that we will achieve the goals we have set, and reliably guarantee the security of our Motherland’
I should hope everyone would see how laughable that claim is by now. So any source that parrots it and pretend the Russians are sincere is, at best, a very deluded source; at worst just a Russian shill shamelessly lying. (ter)
Obviously, then, the Russians will not stop until they have achieved these goals which, they believe, are central to their national aims and regional security.
Obviously, then, the Russians must be stopped at all cost and prevented from achieving these goals that are threatening regional security.

Let's continue onward.
First, it is not in control if its decision-making; the west is. If toppling a democratically elected Ukrainian government in 2013-14 through an engineered colour revolution was an epochal mistake, then the ‘installation’ of Volodymyr Zelensky as President in 2019 is an unconscionable tragedy.
Once again we see empty-brained regurgitation of Russian talking point. If the Kremlin said it, then it is accepted as Gospel. Despite all the contrary evidence. Here we see the usual suspects: the revolution was "engineered", and Zelensky was "installed", with scare quotes. Always trying to sell the Russian narrative as fact, and always refusing to face reality.

The real unconscionable tragedy is the "installation" of Vladimir Putin as President of Russia. See, I can do scare quotes too. And if you are honest, you will see a lot more reasons to seriously doubt the validity of Putin's last election results than those of Zelensky. But it's critically important for the Russian narrative to de-legitimize Zelensky, so that's what the mindless Russian shills do.
Second, there is a studiously-unstated disconnect between the Ukrainian political and military leadership. The government wants this war but the military does not.
A lie so massive that it's a wonder the rest of the article hasn't been swallowed into it. Perhaps if he were talking about Russian political and military leaderships it would have some kernel of truth? If the military didn't want to fight, then Putin's attempted coup on the 24th of February would have worked. Putin's gamble failed because, surprise surprise, the military fought tooth and nail to repeal the invaders.
Third, Ukraine has no clear political objectives for the simple reason that its promoters don’t have one either. All they have is a nebulous intent to drastically reduce Europe’s dependency on Russian energy, expand NATO eastwards and closer to the Russian border, and regain control of the global oil price.
More of the Russian narrative pushing, more of the Ukrainian de-legitimation, more of the pretending Ukraine is just a puppet and similar bullshit conspiracy theories that are there just to make Russia look less bad. Anyone with critical thinking skills should see right through it.
In the absence of any cogent strategy, what they have, instead, is a bundle of tactics masquerading as strategy. But this can never work because it is the same mistake which they made in Afghanistan – trying to fight an unwinnable war with unachievable objectives.
See, if he were talking about Russia here, it would be right.

I'll stop there. This is just a heap of disinformation and regurgitated Russian propaganda. There isn't one ounce of truth in the whole text.
 




If Russia was the industrial powerhouse that some people here like to believe it is, would such generalized pillaging take place?

Or maybe pillage is just part of the Russian way of life and it is impossible for Russians not to pillage every thing they can.
 
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Or maybe pillage is just part of the Russian way of life and it is impossible for Russians not to pillage every thing they can.
There's a wider non-Ukrainian issue here too. Russia has shown it's willing to use both energy and grain supplies as leverage when attempting to force acceptance for the annexation of foreign territory, which is why they absolutely shouldn't be allowed to seize control of even more of the world's resources. Russia is only 1.75% of the world's population and it already controls far more of the world's resources than it is safe to trust them with.
 
Kadyrov Surely loves limelight, Attention and always wants to project tough guy persona.....
Hey, @A Person How did you get behind paywall?
utterly shameless, those soldiers are not some toys to displayed around. whatever the political reason the war is being fought for , uniformed soldiers fighting for their country should be given respect even if they are surrendered. Absolutely undignified behavior by kadyrov & his men.
 
Erdogan - Turkey
Saddam - Iraq

Kurds - Turkey and Iraq

Only Kurds from Iraq must be protected. Turkish Kurds can be killed en masse. Don't you know how the system works?

It's like arguing with feminists.
Has Turkey nerve gassed 200,000 of them? If not we're dealing with false equivalents again. Saddam also annexed Kuwait, took hostages, tortured PoWs and used chemical weapons against Iran and a bunch of other crimes. I'm not condoning all Turkey's actions by saying that, but lets not compare apples an oranges.