Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates

So in 1962, its the failure of VK Krishna menon, the babu turned politician, Nehru was innocent. Thats what you try to convey?
Read the second part :
"Neheru was responsible for over trusting him. He was too much in awe of Menon and his erudition. So yes, Nehru was responsible indeed as well."

BTW, just to qualify it, this is PARTICULAR and SPECIFIC about 62 war with China. Neheru committed other sins as well, elsewhere.
 
Read the second line :
"Neheru was responsible for over trusting him. He was too much in awe of Menon and his erudition. So yes, Nehru was responsible indeed as well."
Then our pm is also responsible for trusting the babus now. Asper you babus are misleading this government, right?
 
Then our pm is also responsible for trusting the babus now. Asper you babus are misleading this government, right?
A per me, our executive is the constant that has failed us for far too long and needs to be fixed. Defence is just a part of its failure.

As per me, the problem is even deeper, if you want to know what I think, I can link you to that post.

Netas are visible, executive is not as visible.

Anyways, its just my opinion. Opinion of just one person.
 
A per me, our executive is the constant that has failed us for far too long and needs to be fixed. Defence is just a part of its failure.

As per me, the problem is even deeper, if you want to know what I think, I can link you to the thread.

Anyways, its just my opinion.
Me and brute majority of indians have an opinion that any failure in defending the national integrity, the pm & goi is responsible for that. So asper me in 1962, the Nehru is responsible for that failure, and DM second.
 
Yeah, not only twitter handlers, some other indian defense forum also have that same misconception. Fortunately, this forum is way more matured and no one blabber about usa fighting chinese for us
US doesn't give a damn about India's interest. In fact US would love to see India getting into war with China. No matter what the outcome is, US is the only country which will benefit from this. Post war scenario will be something like this.

1. India will spend huge amount on modernizing the armed forces and a big chunk of that will go to US.
2. China's economy will certainly be impacted and US will have a leverage in trade negotiations.
3. China's reputation as world leader will take a big hit. US will maintain it's position of "The World Leader" for next few decades.

When US can get all these benefits without doing anything, why would it jump into this war??
 
Me and brute majority of indians have an opinion that any failure in defending the national integrity, the pm & goi is responsible for that. So asper me in 1962, the Nehru is responsible for that failure, and DM second.
All I will say is that, we can remove the politicians from power for we have a system for that. We have done that in past too. That said lot of our problems have remained just like they have always been there. Procurement processes have delayed multiple times and what not. Vital intelligence has been missed or ignored. It makes sense to consider parts of the system which you may not be able to directly remove and you have not yet considered that vital part of the problem.
@Saaho it is relevant these days too.
When you changed one part of the system that you have suspected to be problematic but your problem persists, what you think you should do next?

Don't confuse your modi hatred with the capability of Indian army .
Its not the Modi that I "hate". Infact he is replacable if defective. It is other parts that worry me. Indian Army has capability but it does not have a "will" of her own. It is not allowed to have a "will" of her own. Its that will and direction that flows from south block that worries me.
 
Modi and BJP have become slave to their statements. They have no other option.

You seem to be hankering for a war. Modi and Doval are the most experienced people capable of handling this. What they decide is the final that is really possible. If they decide we can't finght, then it's because we can really not.
Its not the Modi that I "hate". Infact he is replacable if defective. It is other parts that worry me. Indian Army has capability but it does not have a "will" of her own. It is not allowed to have a "will" of her own. Its that will and direction that flows from south block that worries me.

Lol, replaceable with what? You can 'replace' the metal balls inside a ball bearing with plastic....
 
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Lol, replaceable with what? You can 'replace' the metal balls inside a ball bearing with plastic....
There are options: "Third front" and Congress. But that was not even my point. My point was simply this :It is about time we start questioning the people other than politicians who may be responsible for this mess we are in right now. Also question the system which puts them in their position of power.
 
You seem to be hankering for a war. Modi and Doval are the most experienced people capable of handling this. What they decide is the final that is really possible. If they decide we can't finght, then it's because we can really not.


Lol, replaceable with what? You can 'replace' the metal balls inside a ball bearing with plastic....
@vstol Jockey is an ex military man with decent service experience. He knows the mentality of armed forces better than anyone i guess
China ramps up construction of 3rd, 4th aircraft carriers: Report
1 day ago
0 104 1 minute read
shandong.jpg


The rapid growth of the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) has been a point of concern for the US and countries like India and Japan.
China commissioned its first home-built aircraft carrier, the Shandong, in December last year. The Shandong was based on a design derived from China’s first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, which was a former Soviet Navy vessel, acquired from Ukraine. According to Chinese state-run media, construction of the Shandong had begun at the Dalian shipyard in Liaoning province in 2013.
On Saturday, Hong Kong-based media outlet South China Morning Post had reported that China is ramping work on its third and fourth aircraft carriers at the Jiangnan shipyard in Shanghai. “The Type 002 aircraft carrier—the country’s third carrier and the second to be domestically developed—has started the final assembly process,” the South China Morning Post reported, quoting sources. It noted that work on the third aircraft carrier had slowed down due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Construction of the third aircraft carrier reportedly began in 2015. In December, the state-run Global Times reported the third aircraft carrier could be combat-ready by 2025.
“Workers are also starting the keel-laying for the new carrier’s sister ship. Both ships have been built by the Jiangnan Shipyard outside Shanghai,” the publication reported. Laying of the keel, the base structure of a ship’s hull, marks the beginning of full construction. Initial work on the fourth aircraft carrier had started in 2018, but was stopped in 2019, the South China Morning Post reported.
“Construction for the second Type 002 will be faster than the first one because workers have learned and overcome a lot of problems building the first one. It’s a challenging job because the Type 002 is our country’s first domestically designed aircraft carrier,” the South China Morning Post quoted a source as saying.


 
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@vstol Jockey is an ex military man with decent service experience. He knows the mentality of armed forces better than anyone i guess
China ramps up construction of 3rd, 4th aircraft carriers: Report
1 day ago
0 104 1 minute read
shandong.jpg


The rapid growth of the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) has been a point of concern for the US and countries like India and Japan.
China commissioned its first home-built aircraft carrier, the Shandong, in December last year. The Shandong was based on a design derived from China’s first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, which was a former Soviet Navy vessel, acquired from Ukraine. According to Chinese state-run media, construction of the Shandong had begun at the Dalian shipyard in Liaoning province in 2013.
On Saturday, Hong Kong-based media outlet South China Morning Post had reported that China is ramping work on its third and fourth aircraft carriers at the Jiangnan shipyard in Shanghai. “The Type 002 aircraft carrier—the country’s third carrier and the second to be domestically developed—has started the final assembly process,” the South China Morning Post reported, quoting sources. It noted that work on the third aircraft carrier had slowed down due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Construction of the third aircraft carrier reportedly began in 2015. In December, the state-run Global Times reported the third aircraft carrier could be combat-ready by 2025.
“Workers are also starting the keel-laying for the new carrier’s sister ship. Both ships have been built by the Jiangnan Shipyard outside Shanghai,” the publication reported. Laying of the keel, the base structure of a ship’s hull, marks the beginning of full construction. Initial work on the fourth aircraft carrier had started in 2018, but was stopped in 2019, the South China Morning Post reported.
“Construction for the second Type 002 will be faster than the first one because workers have learned and overcome a lot of problems building the first one. It’s a challenging job because the Type 002 is our country’s first domestically designed aircraft carrier,” the South China Morning Post quoted a source as saying.


We alredy miss the train when comes to infrastructure development along LAC. If we didn't give go ahead node for INS Vishal, PLAN start dancing along our coastal lune in near by future.
 
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We alredy miss the rrain when comes to infrastructure development along LAC. If we didn't give go ahead node for INS Vishal, PLAN start dancing along our coastal lune in near by future.
IMHO, we need systems which counter them. Missiles and submarines come to mind. China played the same game against USA. A bevy of hypersonic missiles, anti ship MARV and satellite network/drone to support them will make sense.

Will south block sanction and fast track such systems? I doubt.
 
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IMHO, we need systems which counter them. Missiles and submarines come to mind. China played the same game against USA. A bevy of hypersonic missiles, anti ship MARV and satellite network/drone to support them will make sense.

Will south block sanction and fast track such systems? I doubt.
That all comes in handy if a war broke out. We cannot start war with china for patrolling near indian water ( we even didn't start fighting chinese even after they encroached in to indian an land, thats a different story ). We need to counter patrolling by patrolling near china, for that we need more destroyers and aircraft carriers.
 
That all comes in handy if a war broke out. We cannot start war with china for patrolling near indian water ( we even didn't start fighting chinese even after they encroached in to indian an land, thats a different story ). We need to counter patrolling by patrolling near china, for that we need more destroyers and aircraft carriers.
You need tools to counter their ships first. To "counter patrol" or project power, it will come when we have enough resources. BTW, China also does the same wrt USA. It built weapons to counter US pacific fleet first and now it is slowly building its own equivalent of US fleet.
 
I dont agree armed forces overruling our political leadership.
Armed forces can selectively leak information which can be highly embarrassing for the govt. And that will force the hands of the Govt.

Preparation at civic level is good. But Nothing will happen , people will fight on whatsapp, become BP patient, but I am telling you they won't do anything. Not sure about LAC LOC but arguments will happen at home on these issues. They are after congress, and to uplift economy. Sir you think that Ambani will allow India to get involved into a war? 10 billion dollar investment. Yeh kuch nahi karenge, fuljadiya lagayenge bass, aur aap jese log bekar mein BP barhaoge apna. Please understand sir kuch hony nahi wala.
Please read my post regarding how Modi and BJP have become slave to their own words and rhetoric.
 
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REAL defence acquisitions are "lip service"? BOrder infra development is lip service? Suffer from ModiPhobia or what? If you want I can list them . Let me know
This government has done some serious infra development at lac, but when comes to defense acquisition, they torpedoed the most ambitious project aka mmrca.
 
Too many off topic posts here.
This is a India Tibet border thread and only updates related to it might be more relevant.
What nehru did or did not do 55 years back changes nothing for us today.
All the knee jerk babu or politician blaming will not absolve the army of its shortcomings.
The IA is one of the largest in the world and has a 70 b usd budget. The netas dont decide on the training. Indian forces have enough resources to give china a bloody nose IF properly utilized.
Why not discuss on the following doubts i have -
1. Are we spread too thin along the LAC , with all the rushing too the border ?
2. Are our assets like airfields, army formations too easy targets for Chinese being deployed right at the border ?
3. Are we exerting enough convincing pressure on the Chinese too withdraw or is too obvious that we won't take any action on the ground and the Chinese can sit pretty ?
4. Are our troops adequately protected against a expected Chinese missile barrage or will be caught in the open ?
5. Why has the government not stepped up economic pressure on the Chinese after tik tok banning ? These are low hanging fruits as the Chinese are very money minded and these measures hurt them more than losing men , who they can ignore and flush down the toilet.
 
The only way a war will happen is if China does something really provocative which puts the Holy Trinity (Babu, Neta, Businessmen) in a deep soup. Why will China do so? To send a message to all those having any kind of interest in India: US, Japan etc. Then a token surgical strike will happen. It will give China excuse to invade India. Once Delhi is in danger, the Trinity will be forced to take action. Ultimately, they will stop Chinese invasion in Almbala or may be outskirts of Delhi and declare it a victory. We will get a new national holiday. Hurrah for victory! Meanwhile, we will need to take visa to visit Gurugaon.
Why are you so obsessively salty about Babus bro? And if you feel they are the bane for all of India's problems, why did you not go for UPSC instead of flying away to cold Canada?
 
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