India China Major General-level talks Underway at Daulat Beg Oldi area. Talks began at 11 am.
— Sidhant Sibal (@sidhant) August 8, 2020
Line of Actual Control (LAC) : India & Tibet Border Updates
- Thread starter Shashank
- Start date
You seem to have quite a bit of "inside information" as well being privy to the "war room think tank and strategy group"
Now, it feels really frustrating. WTH do they discuss in these meetings. "Like we discussed last time, we will have another round of discussion next week to decide the date of the next discussion!". Bloody thing looks like an infinite loop!
MoD clarifies it’s report https://t.co/T1COKX3Cbb
— BharatShakti.in (@BharatShaktiBSI) August 8, 2020
this bs continues long enough, we will have a new status quo where things will remain as they are now. China will change it again in their favour some time in future. This has been a shit show from GoI so far. I don't see things going in our favour in any way.
That's exactly what China wishes for. When a person is restless, they make mistakes. China wants Indian people go bonkers and play into the hands of politics, then might come the Chinese hammer. Devide & rule play in action most logically. India's political, economic and social stability is what will make China nervous, nothing else.
I dont see what will we GAIN by Rushing into War
Kargil was different
They were firing on our convoys
So we had to.evict them
Here they are sitting quietly
Our convoys Are moving
Our infrastructure work is in progress
So let us acquire More Rafales , MBRLs
Brahmos and ATGMs before striking them
Striking part will never come, that's the logical scenario. Time to move on.
Consolidation. At present they are sitting quietly and consolidating. Also they are sitting on the land where there is supposed to be no one. That's how they changed the status quo. If we accept this change in status quo simply coz they are sitting quietly, what stops them from coming in further and sitting quietly? as long as they don't fire and they don't want to, we are playing into their hands. Win the war without firing a bullet. War is not something that you can fight at your convenience. China is exploiting this to perfection, technically we are never ready to hit back, we always need more stuff and we always have to buy stuff and that's an endless loop.
It's time GoI grows a pair and replies in a language the Chinese understand. They want to do this without bloodshed. The moment the bloodshed starts, it will become a problem for China (they had to cover up 50 odd casualties to prevent internal repercussions), imagine how they will handle the casualties in case we strike.
This sitting quietly is really a bad excuse and judgement. They are not supposed to be sitting there, quietly or not is immaterial.
Any talk of we not prepared or prepared enough for PLA is bunkum. Even now we have so much ammunition, specially PGMs that can wreak havoc in PLA and PA simultaneously. We have procured enough BVRs, WVRs, Spice 2000 since 27 Feb.
Yes China can manufacture much more but only industries and logistics don't decide outcome of war.
There's a threshold, a limit of absorbing damage that unnerves leadership, specially if it's delivered in short amount of time. This threshold is much lower than your capacity of manufacturing weapons and capability to cause damage.
It's same scenario that USSR had 3000 nukes versus USA had 10,000 but question is can USA absorb 3000 nukes?
No one is fighting till its last man unless capital is about to be invaded.
We have infinite tolerance. When some people can block main arterial road of Delhi for months, why will they care for some inhospitable mountainous terrain? Both right wing and left wing is busy in counting fingers while both were okay having roadblocked in middle of capital. It's hilarious!!
Can someone explain what exactly is this guy trying to say?
Huge premium for India & China to reach some kind of understanding says EAM Jaishankar pic.twitter.com/V9MXoEaxWJ
— Sidhant Sibal (@sidhant) August 8, 2020
India confident in standing solo against China in any future border dispute: European think tank
Post the violent June 15 Galwan Valley clashes, India has shown the confidence of standing solo against China in any future border dispute despite the United States’ offer of forming a Quad alliance against Beijing, a Europe-based think tank said.
Since the clashes in Eastern Ladakh, several negotiations between India and China have taken place. Though they have yielded some results as troops of both countries started pulling back in some of the disputed sectors, Chinese troops are still present in the Depsang Plains region, Gogra, and the Fingers region along the Pangong Tso.
“In the initial phase of disengagement at Pangong Tso, the Chinese moved back from Finger 4 to Finger 5, but continued with their deployment on the ridge line. India is insisting that China move back from Finger 5 to its old position on the Finger 8 spur. In the face of repeated demands by the Chinese negotiators that India move its troops back from the forward areas, India has refused to consider any de-escalation until the disengagement process through the withdrawal of Chinese intrusions is complete,” the European Foundation for South Asian Studies (EFSAS) said in its commentary.
“Just like in Doklam in 2017, the firmness and resolve displayed by the Indian political and military leadership in the face of the Chinese transgressions have surprised China,” the think tank said.
Citing a recent report by the Indian Defence Ministry, EFSAS said, “While engagement and dialogue at military and diplomatic level are continuing to arrive at a mutually acceptable consensus, the present standoff is likely to be prolonged.”
In other words, both countries are prepared to “dig in for the winter despite the harsh climatic conditions that prevail at such high altitudes. India has mounted a massive logistics and stocking exercise similar to what it does every year to retain its hold over the even more unwelcoming Siachen glacier”.
This preparedness by India shows that it is strong enough to counter any serious confrontation at the border despite China offering a lucrative offer of focusing on improvement of the bilateral relations instead of the border issue.
“There has been an argument in Indian public opinion on the boundary question, which worries me, suggesting the Indian government adjust its policy towards China, and change its stance on issues related to Taiwan, Tibet, Hong Kong and the South China Sea to put pressure on China...(Both sides need to) correctly analyse and view each other’s strategic intentions and prevent misinterpretation and miscalculation in a positive, open and inclusive attitude,” Sun Weidong, Chinese Ambassador to India was quoted as saying at a webinar on ‘India-China Relations: The Way Forward’ organised on July 30.
He further said, “The purpose of clarification of Line of Actual Control (LAC) is to maintain peace and tranquillity. When we look back into history, if one side has unilaterally stated its own perception on the LAC during the negotiations, then that will lead to disputes. That is why this process cannot...move on. I think that this is a departure from the original purpose.”
“The important thing is that we must follow those agreements and continue our discussion and consultation along the diplomatic channels and also among corps commanders, and also find out a way to de-escalate the situation and restore peace and tranquillity,” he added.
According to EFSAS, “China has periodically been needling India at the border and routinely violating agreements reached between the two sides to maintain peace and tranquillity there, India has now been bitten enough times to realise the futility, even counter-productivity, of dealing with the border issue in isolation.”
“Despite the temptation to take the easy road proposed by the Chinese, India believes that it is now resolute and strong enough to sustain a serious confrontation at the border in order to secure the future from unpredictable and unprovoked acts of aggression by China,” the think tank added.
“India realises as well the potential serious consequences of a Chinese intrusion that goes out of hand, as the one on June 15 in Galwan well-nigh did,” the commentary stated.
“While India hopes that the current standoff will be resolved through dialogue, it has also left little doubt about its preparedness for conflict escalation in order to safeguard its territory. It may, therefore, be the optimal option for India and China to work out a mutually acceptable solution that involves a face-saving Chinese exit. Russia, as India’s traditional partner and China’s newfound ally, could potentially play a useful role in hammering this out,” it said.
Meanwhile, several offers of “help” from the US to India have been made since the Galwan clashes.
US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo was quoted as saying, during a Congressional hearing on July 30, “They talk about bringing socialism with Chinese characteristics to the world. Claims that they have now made for real estate in Bhutan, the incursion that took place in India, these are indicative of Chinese intentions, and they are testing, they are probing the world to see if we are going to stand up to their threats and their bullying.”
“I am more confident than I was a year ago that the world is prepared to do that. There is a lot more work to do and we need to be serious about it. Our diplomatic efforts are working and momentum is building to mitigate the threats that the Chinese Communist Party presents,” he said.
Proposing a new alliance to counter China, Pompeo said, “Our Quad (Quadrilateral Security Dialogue) -- the US, Australia, India, and Japan -- has been reinvigorated. We have worked hard at this. Our diplomats have done wonderful work. I am very proud of the progress we are making.”
“The challenge of China demands exertion, energy from democracies -- those in Europe, those in Africa, those in South America, and especially those in the Indo-Pacific region,” he further said.
Earlier this week, Chairman and Ranking Democrat Member Eliot Engel and Ranking Republican Member Michael McCaul wrote on behalf of the US House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs to India’s External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar saying that they wanted to demonstrate the strong bipartisan support for the India-US relationship.
“Members of both parties recognise the impact that a strong US-India partnership will have on the trajectory of the 21st century. As Prime Minister Modi said in February this year, our ties ‘are no longer just another partnership. It is a far greater and closer relationship’. This closer relationship is all the more important as India faces aggression from China along your shared border, which is part of the Chinese government’s consistent pattern of unlawful and belligerent territorial aggression across the Indo-Pacific. The United States will remain steadfast in support of India’s efforts to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity,” the letter read.
Citing another instance of US trying to woo India, EFSAS said, “In early July, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows stressed that the US will continue to stand strong in the ongoing conflict between India and China. He alleged that no one in China’s periphery was safe from Chinese aggression.”
On July 2, Republican Senator Rick Scott wrote a letter to Prime Minister Narendra Modi saying, “Communist China believes that in order for them to be strong, America, India and other freedom-loving countries must be weaker. They are cracking down on freedom and autonomy in Hong Kong, and continue to threaten Taiwan and India. As you continue to stand against Communist China and General Secretary of the Communist Party Xi (Jinping), I want to offer help in any way I can to the Republic of India, the world’s largest democracy and our ally. The United States will always defend our allies and those fighting for freedom.”
Instead of accepting the US’ help, India has maintained that it will not join the US and other countries who have been victims of China’s aggressive behaviour unless pushed to the brink.
The EFSAS quoted Jaishankar at a virtual conference held on July 20, “Non-alignment was a term of a particular era and geopolitical landscape. One aspect was independence, which remains a factor of continuity for us.”
“The consequence of repositioning of the United States, that the big umbrella is now smaller than it used to be, has allowed many other countries to play more autonomous roles. It does not affect us as much because we were never part of an alliance system and we will never be. But countries who depended more on the US are finding they have to take a call themselves on many issues,” he said.
The EFSAS stated that the US should move “beyond general assurances of standing by India and spelt out exactly what it was willing to offer to attract India enough to take the plunge and the risk” of aligning with forces against China.
www.hindustantimes.com
Post the violent June 15 Galwan Valley clashes, India has shown the confidence of standing solo against China in any future border dispute despite the United States’ offer of forming a Quad alliance against Beijing, a Europe-based think tank said.
Since the clashes in Eastern Ladakh, several negotiations between India and China have taken place. Though they have yielded some results as troops of both countries started pulling back in some of the disputed sectors, Chinese troops are still present in the Depsang Plains region, Gogra, and the Fingers region along the Pangong Tso.
“In the initial phase of disengagement at Pangong Tso, the Chinese moved back from Finger 4 to Finger 5, but continued with their deployment on the ridge line. India is insisting that China move back from Finger 5 to its old position on the Finger 8 spur. In the face of repeated demands by the Chinese negotiators that India move its troops back from the forward areas, India has refused to consider any de-escalation until the disengagement process through the withdrawal of Chinese intrusions is complete,” the European Foundation for South Asian Studies (EFSAS) said in its commentary.
“Just like in Doklam in 2017, the firmness and resolve displayed by the Indian political and military leadership in the face of the Chinese transgressions have surprised China,” the think tank said.
Citing a recent report by the Indian Defence Ministry, EFSAS said, “While engagement and dialogue at military and diplomatic level are continuing to arrive at a mutually acceptable consensus, the present standoff is likely to be prolonged.”
In other words, both countries are prepared to “dig in for the winter despite the harsh climatic conditions that prevail at such high altitudes. India has mounted a massive logistics and stocking exercise similar to what it does every year to retain its hold over the even more unwelcoming Siachen glacier”.
This preparedness by India shows that it is strong enough to counter any serious confrontation at the border despite China offering a lucrative offer of focusing on improvement of the bilateral relations instead of the border issue.
“There has been an argument in Indian public opinion on the boundary question, which worries me, suggesting the Indian government adjust its policy towards China, and change its stance on issues related to Taiwan, Tibet, Hong Kong and the South China Sea to put pressure on China...(Both sides need to) correctly analyse and view each other’s strategic intentions and prevent misinterpretation and miscalculation in a positive, open and inclusive attitude,” Sun Weidong, Chinese Ambassador to India was quoted as saying at a webinar on ‘India-China Relations: The Way Forward’ organised on July 30.
He further said, “The purpose of clarification of Line of Actual Control (LAC) is to maintain peace and tranquillity. When we look back into history, if one side has unilaterally stated its own perception on the LAC during the negotiations, then that will lead to disputes. That is why this process cannot...move on. I think that this is a departure from the original purpose.”
“The important thing is that we must follow those agreements and continue our discussion and consultation along the diplomatic channels and also among corps commanders, and also find out a way to de-escalate the situation and restore peace and tranquillity,” he added.
According to EFSAS, “China has periodically been needling India at the border and routinely violating agreements reached between the two sides to maintain peace and tranquillity there, India has now been bitten enough times to realise the futility, even counter-productivity, of dealing with the border issue in isolation.”
“Despite the temptation to take the easy road proposed by the Chinese, India believes that it is now resolute and strong enough to sustain a serious confrontation at the border in order to secure the future from unpredictable and unprovoked acts of aggression by China,” the think tank added.
“India realises as well the potential serious consequences of a Chinese intrusion that goes out of hand, as the one on June 15 in Galwan well-nigh did,” the commentary stated.
“While India hopes that the current standoff will be resolved through dialogue, it has also left little doubt about its preparedness for conflict escalation in order to safeguard its territory. It may, therefore, be the optimal option for India and China to work out a mutually acceptable solution that involves a face-saving Chinese exit. Russia, as India’s traditional partner and China’s newfound ally, could potentially play a useful role in hammering this out,” it said.
Meanwhile, several offers of “help” from the US to India have been made since the Galwan clashes.
US Secretary of State Michael Pompeo was quoted as saying, during a Congressional hearing on July 30, “They talk about bringing socialism with Chinese characteristics to the world. Claims that they have now made for real estate in Bhutan, the incursion that took place in India, these are indicative of Chinese intentions, and they are testing, they are probing the world to see if we are going to stand up to their threats and their bullying.”
“I am more confident than I was a year ago that the world is prepared to do that. There is a lot more work to do and we need to be serious about it. Our diplomatic efforts are working and momentum is building to mitigate the threats that the Chinese Communist Party presents,” he said.
Proposing a new alliance to counter China, Pompeo said, “Our Quad (Quadrilateral Security Dialogue) -- the US, Australia, India, and Japan -- has been reinvigorated. We have worked hard at this. Our diplomats have done wonderful work. I am very proud of the progress we are making.”
“The challenge of China demands exertion, energy from democracies -- those in Europe, those in Africa, those in South America, and especially those in the Indo-Pacific region,” he further said.
Earlier this week, Chairman and Ranking Democrat Member Eliot Engel and Ranking Republican Member Michael McCaul wrote on behalf of the US House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs to India’s External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar saying that they wanted to demonstrate the strong bipartisan support for the India-US relationship.
“Members of both parties recognise the impact that a strong US-India partnership will have on the trajectory of the 21st century. As Prime Minister Modi said in February this year, our ties ‘are no longer just another partnership. It is a far greater and closer relationship’. This closer relationship is all the more important as India faces aggression from China along your shared border, which is part of the Chinese government’s consistent pattern of unlawful and belligerent territorial aggression across the Indo-Pacific. The United States will remain steadfast in support of India’s efforts to defend its sovereignty and territorial integrity,” the letter read.
Citing another instance of US trying to woo India, EFSAS said, “In early July, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows stressed that the US will continue to stand strong in the ongoing conflict between India and China. He alleged that no one in China’s periphery was safe from Chinese aggression.”
On July 2, Republican Senator Rick Scott wrote a letter to Prime Minister Narendra Modi saying, “Communist China believes that in order for them to be strong, America, India and other freedom-loving countries must be weaker. They are cracking down on freedom and autonomy in Hong Kong, and continue to threaten Taiwan and India. As you continue to stand against Communist China and General Secretary of the Communist Party Xi (Jinping), I want to offer help in any way I can to the Republic of India, the world’s largest democracy and our ally. The United States will always defend our allies and those fighting for freedom.”
Instead of accepting the US’ help, India has maintained that it will not join the US and other countries who have been victims of China’s aggressive behaviour unless pushed to the brink.
The EFSAS quoted Jaishankar at a virtual conference held on July 20, “Non-alignment was a term of a particular era and geopolitical landscape. One aspect was independence, which remains a factor of continuity for us.”
“The consequence of repositioning of the United States, that the big umbrella is now smaller than it used to be, has allowed many other countries to play more autonomous roles. It does not affect us as much because we were never part of an alliance system and we will never be. But countries who depended more on the US are finding they have to take a call themselves on many issues,” he said.
The EFSAS stated that the US should move “beyond general assurances of standing by India and spelt out exactly what it was willing to offer to attract India enough to take the plunge and the risk” of aligning with forces against China.
India confident in standing solo against China in any future border dispute: European think tank
This preparedness by India shows that it is strong enough to counter any serious confrontation at the border despite China offering a lucrative offer of focusing on improvement of the bilateral relations instead of the border issue, the EFSAS said.
Nah I'm just bs'ing. But some wierd things the timing of October November seems pretty decent. There is this astrological predictions which I don't believe in but seem plausible. Also the U.S elections would be at its peak during this time. It's similar to '62 when the U.S and the Soviets were in the bay of pigs crisis and China invaded India. The timing is just too good to miss.
The US election results doesn't preclude the US President from acting. The incumbent retains office till 31st Dec 2020. Moreover, unlike in 1962 where China feared US joining in the war the former prosecuted on India coz of what China did to the US in the Korean War & their support for the Viet Cong against the French & later the US in Vietnam & what was then Indo China apart from Chinese support for communist movements all across SE Asia, nothing like that has occured in the recent past between both parties nor is India dependant on direct US intervention as opposed to US support .
Their initial plan of surprising India has half worked . Unless they want to press home their advantage which always remains a possibility they'd not precipitate anything beyond what they've already initiated & leave the remaining work to Phase -2 which in all probability will follow in a few years. Having said that a good deal is dependant on how the CCP retreat goes for Xi scheduled in mid August. If he faces tumult within the ranks, you can bet it'd be reflected on the LAC.
This joker takes India too seriously.. always keeps talking as if India is in the same league as China.. as if India is entitled to Respect, just because it has potential... Why should nations like China treat India as an equal, when India's claim to great power status always lies in the distant future.. Even Tushar Kapoor had potential.. But, foreign policy is conducted in the present..
He should be talking about how to tackle the LAC issue, instead he's trying to become the sashi tharoor of bjp.
Raksha Mantri Shri @rajnathsingh will make an important announcement at 10.00 am today.
— रक्षा मंत्री कार्यालय/ RMO India (@DefenceMinIndia) August 9, 2020
My heartbeats have increased
What could it be
Raksha Mantri Shri @rajnathsingh will make an important announcement at 10.00 am today.
— रक्षा मंत्री कार्यालय/ RMO India (@DefenceMinIndia) August 9, 2020
My heartbeats have increased
What could it be
List of 101 defence weapons/platforms to be put on import embargo by Defence Ministry December 2020 onwards.
the image you have attached is barely visible looks like a large size thumbnail image.