Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
So targets in muzafarabad was also on cards, but didn't execute.
IAF used only half the ordinance/ missiles it carried. Guess what were other targets...
We don't know for sure. For this reason I have left it on record, but with with question marks.
you keep insisting that you bombed us. okay! but why are you ignoring that we bombed you too and seriously nobody cared about our answer? you can seriously watch ndtv and other news channel transmission again and you will realize the impact of our answer. bomb for bomb. don't expect us to copy everything like range, jets etc. we fly different jets and we have tested missiles on you. it was like a training. it was so easy. i don't care about indian perception. they still say that nothing happened. i mean come on! you have to accept the facts and move on. we don't deny that you dropped spice bombs. have you seen us ignoring this fact? we do what we want and we do it in our own way. i don't want to argue you. everyone knows our capability. obviously it was not a war. it was tit for tat. nothing else.
You don't get it, do you?
Let's Zoom back,
Who reached the objective that they set out to do strategically?
The moment IAF crossed LoC and bombed deep inside Pakistani territory, the mission was over. That single action changed the entire dynamics of the subcontinent. From the early 90's the subcontinent's power balance hung in the threat of nuclear escalation ladder. In every instance, Pakistani leadership showed us the nuclear threat. The doctrine was to Bleed India with a Thousand Cuts under the nuclear umbrella. They used jihadis as a low-cost option to have some kind of military parity. It worked for almost three-decade. It first showed fallibility during the 2016 surgical strike. But, Pakistan chooses to completely deny it. Indian leadership would have expected Pakistan to do the same here. In shock, they went a little impulsive and called a press conference. India would have been fine either way. It really didn't matter if the bomb hit or how many terrorists were dead. What mattered was the intent to punish by crossing the supposedly "red lines" between two nuclear-armed nations.
The Balakot strike was the first time a nuclear power has used an airstrike against another nuclear power on its territory. You see, its a risky proposition. Because no one really knows how to control the nuclear escalation ladder. Subsequent days after balakot showed exactly that. The capture of a downed pilot and threat of missile strike. Pakistani leadership was out of its depth because they never calculated this far. This is evident by the narration of that night's events by Sardar Ayaz Sadiq. Major powers were curiously quiet and seemed to agree with India.
That single event made it clear that a coordinated terrorist attack inside India will not go unpunished. Now the international community is using FATF and WTO to get Pakistan to behave accordingly. Old gulf ummah has stopped giving blank cheques. Imran is trying so hard to get a face-to-face with Modi. You see a lot has changed in a handful of years. Will ISI-Pakistani Deep state try another risky attack inside India? It can but the cost has gone up.
So, what was the objective of the Balakot strike? As Retaliation to the Pulwama attack so that it will increase the cost for the Pakistani establishment. Which obviously worked.
nothing has changed. can you please stop quoting ayaz sadiq? if we allow our opposition to speak against country, they will speak. there are traitors here. ok i have tried not to answer this ayaz sadiq thing several times but now i can't control. do you remember your minister or mna who did a secret phone call and told the other party that china has beaten indian soldiers badly? he was arrested on the same day. and by the way you can see arnab goswami chat history. even he knew everything. he was enjoying our response.
here you are talking about all types of missile attack drama and nuclear threshold. who stopped you on feb 28? is this not a disgrace that your own airforce deny any pilot capture and after half an hour, your enemy show your pilot on tv? what kind of embarrasment to pakistan? Pakistan infiltrated deep in the morning. i haven't remember any nuclear country attacking other nuclear country in the morning. in the morning means very clear and to the point.
we deliberately guided bombs on empty places. feb 27 will remain. i remember on feb 26, your government and your airforce people said in the press conference that this attack is not on pak armed forces. they said it. you can check the video. was that not fear of retaliation? was this fear? why clarification from indian armed forces? we destroyed your jet openly. who helped you? gulf states or mighty americans? what happened to mighty india on feb 28? who stopped you? saudis? or russians or migs? hahaha
if this threshold doesn't exist( according to you) than india should attack pakistan. what happened? feb 27? more than two years now. arabs are your friends now. iran your friend. russia and america your friend. france is like a buddy haha. where is iaf? you know if you drop bombs again, we will do the same. you hit military, we will hit military. i don't care about pakistani oppoisition. traitors are everywhere even in your country.
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As I write this I realize you are yet to develop the faculties to comprehend these concepts but still
The point is, Balakot strike itself achieved all the objectives that we aimed for. We lost no men in enemy action. On the next day, our only ask was to return our pilot. There is simply no reason to attack again after that. Parading captured pilot only shows the lack of professionalism of your establishment. No country treats the capture of their pilot as a failure. He is alive which is what matters. Parvaiz Qureshi who later became Pakistani air chief was an Indian PoW for one and half years. You couldn't keep Abhinandan even for few days.
India said, "we attacked only terrorists" because India is afraid? That is hilarious if you believe that (only proves the first sentence). And the US said they only attack terrorist Bin Laden hideout in Abbottabad because they are afraid of the mighty Pakistan army. Kargil heights were infiltrated by Mujahideen, not NLI. There are international laws and conventions on attacking another country. Let's leave it at that.
Yup selected PM and conglomerate army are the patriots and everyone else traitors. His revealing of the incident is only a trailer more will come in time just like that of Kargil. We have seen this movie before.
Mostly rant of a confused mind.
The point is, Balakot strike itself achieved all the objectives that we aimed for. We lost no men in enemy action. On the next day, our only ask was to return our pilot. There is simply no reason to attack again after that. Parading captured pilot only shows the lack of professionalism of your establishment. No country treats the capture of their pilot as a failure. He is alive which is what matters. Parvaiz Qureshi who later became Pakistani air chief was an Indian PoW for one and half years. You couldn't keep Abhinandan even for few days.
India said, "we attacked only terrorists" because India is afraid? That is hilarious if you believe that (only proves the first sentence). And the US said they only attack terrorist Bin Laden hideout in Abbottabad because they are afraid of the mighty Pakistan army. Kargil heights were infiltrated by Mujahideen, not NLI. There are international laws and conventions on attacking another country. Let's leave it at that.
Well, we did (do I need to even justify or prove that?) and I also strongly believe we missed, unlike my brother/sisters here. Most likely because of incompetence of someone in programming the weapon.
Ummm... difference is, you missed too and some of your bombs failed to detonate. I don't buy the argument that it was on purpose. There is no evidence of that. At best there is one video of a TV-guided bomb but nothing conclusive from it. That bomb failed to explode.
Lets even leave all that, okay? Because you need to prove your intent. How can you produce evidence for that intent?
You failed to address the elephant in the room. Why the hell deploy entire of your airforce to just to "try" hitting a HQ base which can be hit by a simple artillery bombardment? And if you were going to employ your entire airforce then atleast chose a target which will show your capability? Hit somewhere near Delhi? Or say Ambala? What the point of hitting a target less than 5-10 KM from the LOC with airforce?
That is the biggest fly in your ointment.
Who is NDTV? Why do they matter? Why should they be taken seriously? BTW, remember, same NDTV also said that IAF shot down F-16 and India killed 300 terrorists in that Madarsa. You want to take that claim seriously? If you discount them on one front, you cann't take them seriously when it suites your narrative. NDTV sells sensationalism, like all the Indian media. Sorry, but no one takes that seriously. No one that matters atleast.
Military actions are objective oriented not like the street brawls. Sorry if you don't even know this much.
I guess I have to ask you again : WHAT MILITARY OBJECTIVE WAS ACHIEVED BY TRYING TO HIT A BORDER HQ WITH ENTIRE PAF?
Military is never run on emotions. Unless in Pakistan it is something else. If it is then, well, its not even military.
Then what was that "bomb for bomb"?
LOL!
If it was easy, then it was not a training. Trainings are purposefully never easy
Good for you!
Au contarire, we said once and we stuck to our narrative. There was no Doosra-Banda in our narrative.
Well, when you say "We have shot down your Su-30MKI", thats not a fact, thats a claim.
Congrats!
Congrats again!
Aiming low helps, certainly.
We both know that is not the case, don't we.
And?
Is that a military you are having in Pakistan or a Kindergarten? Seriously? Tit for tat? LOL!
@Arsalan123 There is a distinct difference between what the 2 air forces did.
a. The IAF attacked across the IB. Not the LoC. Not disputed territory. Territory which we accept is Pakistani.
b. PAF attacked what it believed to be disputed. Unless, of course you want to admit that Pakistanis admit Kashmir is Indian territory and there is a recognised border.
As for casualty numbers, let us wait for a decade or so. They will eventually leak, like the always do.
a. The IAF attacked across the IB. Not the LoC. Not disputed territory. Territory which we accept is Pakistani.
b. PAF attacked what it believed to be disputed. Unless, of course you want to admit that Pakistanis admit Kashmir is Indian territory and there is a recognised border.
As for casualty numbers, let us wait for a decade or so. They will eventually leak, like the always do.
After Imran Khan, Pakistan’s Army chief calls for better relations with India
Resolution of Kashmir dispute a must to tap potential of Asian connectivity, he says.
The shaky guy Bajwa is saying things.
I see his excellency @Arsalan123 is having a good time here.
All PAF did that way was to pick a pre planned mission with the sole objective of image management. The bombs did not explode. Your F-16s (which you denied were there) wasted half your budget in AMRAAM firings, not that it amounted to anything. Bonus point - you gave the old MiG-21 its swansong kill.
Slow claps for PAF, excellency. You did lob some duds and like you said no one cared. That excellency is how life works. Duds dont get much attention.
All PAF did that way was to pick a pre planned mission with the sole objective of image management. The bombs did not explode. Your F-16s (which you denied were there) wasted half your budget in AMRAAM firings, not that it amounted to anything. Bonus point - you gave the old MiG-21 its swansong kill.
Slow claps for PAF, excellency. You did lob some duds and like you said no one cared. That excellency is how life works. Duds dont get much attention.
One of the biggest achievements of the Balakot strike was the fact it actually happened. Even if one assumes everything Pakistanis have said is correct, like bombs missed the target, the facility was for children etc, the fact that India chose to up the ante and went for kinetic route itself was an achievements in our history. Change already started with 2016 SS but with airstrikes it became a trend
Exactly we just raised the bar and moved up the escalation matrix. Pakistan no longer can assume that their old tactic of conducting terrorist attacks will go unanswered. We have set the expectation for them and world what to expect next time if there is an attack.
your airforce said clearly that the attack wasn't against pak armed forces. question is why you said it? pakistan airchief is a pow. ok so what? your pm was banned from landing in america. big deal? hahaha. anyway nobody paraded your pilot. all lies. yeah we received many requests from india for the release of pilot and we have shown mercy. you should be thankful to us. yes he is alive and it's good. nobody wants to kill a pilot. keep one thing in your mind. india can never become america. stop giving reference of american attack. our relations with americans are totally different. we don't share anything with india. yes india is a super power and india will continue to fight against terrorists! ok! nobody cares about your terrorists in pakistan. make more imaginary terrorists. you keep changing numbers. sometimes 200, sometimes 350. i mean this is trash.
what balakot achieved? you said above it achieved all objectives. whole mission was a total failure. actual target is still intact. where are you living? i mean even people in jungle can't talk like this and make assumptions. this is our world, real world. live here. hahaha
i feel sorry for one su-30, one mig-21 and i still feel really bad about mi-17. next time, we will not target helicopters who are on search and rescue. i am sorry but this naughty f-16, it intruded and all it did was total destruction. i mean who allows f-16 to roam free? vipers are dangerous. who is next? rafale? haha.
disputed or undisputed doesn't matter. you dropped bombs, we dropped bombs. you should wait for the weak. bbc cnn already published mi-17 and mig-21. i still feel sorry for mi-17. i mean you can't stop f-16. it's hard.
Oh man, This kid is more broken than I thought. Can you process ideas and give a coherent reply? This is just a total waste of time.
Which F-16 excellency. The one that did not venture beyond the safe zone?
You are right. You cannot allow the F-16s to roam freely. I mean who is going to pay for the fuel and spares?
PS - Avenger 1 is well and says hello and hopes your Vipers will not chicken out the next time.