Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16

Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world! . ---

Another more detailed point....

Important point, it is sometimes also named as "Sabaz Kot".

and ....
More Zoomed in we see Tandar village..

Wikimapia - Let's describe the whole world!



33.264653,73.975668 is where this place is around ...

These coordinates are about 6-10 KM north east to Tandar where Abhi-Vert was shot down.

So yes, IAF has basic geography in order....

Lets see if we can find sat-pictures.
 
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Posts taken from BR from the member Shivaji...........


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This tweet was tagged to one more person who had tweeted this on 6th March:

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Note that Gafoor had appeared on one Pakistani channel on 5th March and indicated that PAF pilot in CMH has died.




@vstol Jockey @Falcon @nair

That looks like they lost two pilots, baba had mentioned the same thing earlier. There were twitter rumors that CO of Sherdils was poofed.
Looks like that is even more certain now.
 
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Posts taken from BR from the member Shivaji...........


View attachment 5849

This tweet was tagged to one more person who had tweeted this on 6th March:

View attachment 5850


Note that Gafoor had appeared on one Pakistani channel on 5th March and indicated that PAF pilot in CMH has died.




@vstol Jockey @Falcon @nair

That looks like they lost two pilots, baba had mentioned the same thing earlier. There were twitter rumors that CO of Sherdils was poofed.
Looks like that is even more certain now.
If the R-73 had actually hit F-16 in the front part, both pilots would have sustained lot of shrapnel injuries. the front one would have got more of them compared to the rear one. This explains why both pilots have died.
 
Yo folks! @BlackOpsIndia @Falcon @vstol Jockey @nair @Guynextdoor

I am able to identify a source of satellite imagery of that region in medium resolution (1-3 meter per pixel). I am working with the vendor and may get a Non-Profit account (possible really cheap or free).

Assuming a crash site will be slightly bigger, this may give us a good clue. Best part? They have coverage (with zero cloud cover) for following dates :

1. Feb 15th
2. Feb 21th
3. Feb 27th (5:30 AM UTC +00:00 => Feb 27th 11:00 AM IST (+5:30))

So ..... Lets see.
 
3. Feb 27th (5:30 AM UTC +00:00 => Feb 27th 11:00 AM IST (+5:30))
That's perfect timing, it was either being loaded into trucks as shown in one of the videos or probably being located by that time, it is possible we may find something.

If you do find something please take admins and mods in confidence and it'll be exclusive with social media paid promotion, we will get traction very soon and the post will be on autopilot. Do not share it directly.

I didn't get notification of tag, probably you tagged after editing, either way eagerly waiting for something to turn up, if the image is too big share cropped parts and others will examine.
 
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Yo folks! @BlackOpsIndia @Falcon @vstol Jockey @nair @Guynextdoor

I am able to identify a source of satellite imagery of that region in medium resolution (1-3 meter per pixel). I am working with the vendor and may get a Non-Profit account (possible really cheap or free).

Assuming a crash site will be slightly bigger, this may give us a good clue. Best part? They have coverage (with zero cloud cover) for following dates :

1. Feb 15th
2. Feb 21th
3. Feb 27th (5:30 AM UTC +00:00 => Feb 27th 11:00 AM IST (+5:30))

So ..... Lets see.
Watermark the footage. And turn it into pdf if you can.
 
Mods if this is a repost please delete. This is a beautifully written article though.

Deconstructing Pak’s Missile Muddle: Conclusive Evidence, Or Elaborate Trick?
Shiv Aroor
Apr 09 2019
9:58 am

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By MIHIR SHAH

Why has a grainy photograph, purportedly showing four damaged air-to-air missiles, become the centrepiece of a fresh controversy over the outcome of the India-Pakistan air battle on February 27?

On February 26, sometime around 3:00 am, a formation of Indian Air Force (IAF) strike aircraft crossed over into Pakistan, and dropped precision-guided munitions on a terrorist training camp near the town of Balakot. The very next day, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) launched a retaliatory raid on Indian military targets. While the attacking force failed in its mission, it managed to shoot down a MiG-21 Bison that was scrambled in response, and captured the pilot—Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman. At the same time, the IAF also claimed a “kill” on a PAF F-16 fighter.

While circumstantial evidence pointing to an F-16 loss does exist, the absence of direct proof has meant that claims and counter-claims and counter-counter-claims have flown thick and fast between the two countries. The missiles that have been purportedly recovered from the MiG-21 are a key piece of the evidence that Pakistan uses to argue that not only was an F-16 never shot down, but that Varthaman never fired his weapons at all.

The First Photo, and a Curious Claim

The first mention of the missiles was made when Pakistani Twitter handles posted photos of two damaged rounds, claiming that they were from Varthaman’s MiG-21. The photo, they argued, showed that he couldn’t have fired a shot, as both the missiles on his aircraft were recovered with their warheads intact. And because he never launched, he couldn’t have shot down a Pakistan Air Force F-16 fighter.

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These tweets were promptly fact-checked by several aviation watchers. They observed that the round at the bottom was an R-77 medium-range missile, and that two more missiles from the MiG-21’s standard air-to-air loadout were missing from the picture. Could Varthaman have fired these at the F-16?

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The Second Photo. A Fresh Approach.

The Pakistani accounts were quick to react—they soon posted a photograph showing four missiles, this time also attempting to make a similar claim: that since all four missiles were recovered with their seekers intact, not a single one was launched.

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This too was fact-checked by military aviation experts, who pointed out that the photo proved the exact opposite of what was being claimed. One—possibly two—of the missiles that were showcased showed signs that they had been launched, and the warhead on one had exploded.

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The layout of a modern air-to-air missile confirms this assessment. The frontmost section consists of the seeker mechanism and the missile electronics. Behind it—and about one third of the way down the weapon’s body—is the warhead. This is the portion of the missile that explodes when it approaches the target. Behind the warhead is the rocket motor, which propels the missile forward.

Warheads can be of several types, but they all have one common trait: they explode outwards, in an expanding circle around the missile body’s longitudinal axis. As a warhead explodes, it may damage the target aircraft, but leaves the seeker section forward of it relatively undamaged.

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Schematic diagram showing the construction of an R-73 air-to-air missile, the type that MiG-21 pilot Abhinandan Varthaman is said to have fired at a Pakistan Air Force F-16 fighter. The warhead is visible near the mid-section. Image via Wikimedia Commons

In the photo presented by Pakistani authorities, one R-77’s rocket motor section appeared to be missing, while the motor as well as warhead sections of the R-73 were missing as well. Contrary to proving that Varthaman never fired his weapons, the image seemed to show that two missiles were indeed launched, with at least one of them detonating in the air. The fact that all four seekers were found intact was inconsequential. Military aviation journalist Angad Singh even produced images of Pakistan’s Sidewinder missile seekers that were recovered unscathed after the missiles successfully destroyed Indian unmanned aircraft in 2002.

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Deliberate Leak?

It appears that the Pakistan’s nodal body on information warfare—known as Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR)—initially leaked a photograph of only two missiles, hoping to convince its audience that Varthaman never fired a shot. When that backfired, they leaked a more “complete” image, this one showing four missiles, and hoping to seal the argument once and for all. The second image, too, failed to convince observers of Pakistan’s case.

Of the many accounts that were disseminating this disinformation, one stood out prominently. It was run by Shahid Raza—a journalist and self-styled “weaponologist” from Pakistan.

Curiously, Raza’s tweets were at odds with his earlier contention that Varthaman’s MiG-21 was armed only with “TV-guided ground attack missiles”; and that because the aircraft had only two weapons stations, it could not have carried R-73 air-to-air missiles. It would appear that he failed do his due diligence in enquiring why a fighter aircraft on “operational readiness platform” (ORP) duty was armed with ground-attack munitions, or performing a simple Google search to confirm the number of weapons stations on the MiG-21 (four, not two). However, a casual glace at Raza’s Twitter timeline reveals his penchant for making far-fetched claims on a regular basis.

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The Debate Resurfaces

The “missile” argument having been debunked, the debate died out over the next few days. However, a fresh news report in the American magazine Foreign Policy—which attempted to demonstrate that no Pakistani F-16s were lost in the battle—breathed new life into the controversy. In response to the report, the Indian Air Force showed radar tracks from the February 27 aerial engagement to a select gathering of Indian journalists, which it used to buttress its own claim of having shot down the F-16.

Thereafter, the photo of the four missiles was released again. Only this time, it was tweeted out by the ISPR’s official Twitter handle, possibly to lend the it some credibility. The statement repeated the earlier claim; that since all four seekers were recovered, no missile was fired by the Indian Air Force.

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The assertion was soon reiterated by Asia Times Journalist Saikat Datta, who seemed oblivious to the fact-checking that was done less than three weeks ago. It was subsequently picked up by the author of the Foreign Policy piece as well, who used it to buttress her own controversial report.

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Datta and Seligman’s alacrity in endorsing a debunked claim was bizarre. Both are seen as credible reporters, with a body of quality work marking their careers. Did they become unwitting tools in the hands of an able information warfare apparatus? The fact that their reports rely on singular sources of information—Dattas’s story on Pakistani sources alone—may very well suggest so.
 
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Datta and Seligman’s alacrity in endorsing a debunked claim was bizarre. Both are seen as credible reporters

Yeah we gave this title to every tom and harry, all thanks to twitter these frauds are getting exposed as they can't keep their mouth shut and there is no editor and team to check the tweets while they polish there image by taking all the credit. Twitter is godsent.
 
Yeah we gave this title to every tom and harry, all thanks to twitter these frauds are getting exposed as they can't keep their mouth shut and there is no editor and team to check the tweets while they polish there image by taking all the credit. Twitter is godsent.
Just for you all. Wg. Cdr Abhi had seen his missile hit the F-16 and he being a Wg. Cdr. will never go wrong in visual identification of his target. Infact no fighter pilot, even a pilot Officer will go wrong. This is our bread and butter-recognition of aircraft visually.
 
Yeah we gave this title to every tom and harry, all thanks to twitter these frauds are getting exposed as they can't keep their mouth shut and there is no editor and team to check the tweets while they polish there image by taking all the credit. Twitter is godsent.
Its infuriating at times, social media I mean. But think of it this way, these media houses were reporting based on their agenda for a long time and they remained unchallenged. Not anymore.
We as a nation are still in our infancy when it comes to usage of internet, as time passes we will get better at dissecting information. We won't need media to tell us what to think. In a way that's what traditional media is worried about, relevance or the lack of it as time passes by. Just my two cents.
 
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How to Dodge AMRAAMs: Russia keen on the passing of tactics to all Su-30 Operators

Su-30s were the Bigfish which Pakistani Airforce wanted to kill to win a propaganda war and establish superiority myth over Indian air force but instead lost an F-16 in the process to an inferior Mig-21 in the latest dogfight between two nuclear-armed neighbors which came nearly after 40 years from their last air war.

Upgraded Mig-21 known as ” Bis” snuck up and was positioned in a way by the ground operators that F-16 while busy trying to kill a Su-30 that it completely forgot about the small fish which chased one F-16 with an R-73 missile and went for the kill. Su-30s are not only front line fighter jets of the Indian air force but also the poster child of the IAF and knocking one down will not only dent the morals of the rivals but also come as great propaganda for their own personals who were wary of the jet, this is the reason that F-16 pilots in recent dogfight largely focused on a Su-30 which was nearly 60km away from the pack of F-16s who tried for a kill using multiple rounds of long-range air to air missile. F-16 while flying nearly at 40000 feet used it’s altitude to its advantage and fired multiple rounds of AIM-120C-5 at lone Su-30 guarding a military installation at 15-16000 feet. AIM-120C-5, when fired from that altitude, will get the maximum range extracted from its missile and this is one of the reasons that low flying Su-30s were not able to get missile firing clearance from their onboard cueing systems for its R-77 missile which too has a range similar to AIM-120C-5 but won’t have reached F-16s even if fired manually, since it carried lower range at that altitude. F-16 pilots were flying at 40000 feet for a reason and knew that in a WVR engagement where Angle of Attack is severally limited to F-16 could have handed Su-30s an easy win over them and Su-30 is also known for phenomenal maneuverability below 20000 feet and should have used its maximum sustained turn rate of 22 degrees a second to not only dodge AIM-120C-5 missiles fired at it but also used its onboard jammers of Israeli origin to its full advantage to make this air to air missiles almost like a Un-guided Rockets.

Superior Pilot training and tactics developed by Indian pilots who are regularly engaged with Western fighter types world over in major air exercises came handy to outmaneuver such a modern air to air missile that many Su-30 operators are already approaching Indian Airforce through Russian government to learn and study tactics used by IAF that day against AIM-120C-5 missiles. IAF is cautious since military operations are still ongoing but might brief few allies who also operates Su-30s in coming months until then pilots flying Su-30 that day might thank his stars and superior skills that he knew his aircraft better than the F-16 pilot who wasted his missiles. F-16 vs Su-30 engagement that day might have dented confidence of PAF F-16 pilots further that day since even when Su-30 was at a disadvantage they couldn’t make a kill. IAF has trained its Su-30 pilots like that of a midfielder who passes the ball at the right time to a striker who puts the ball in the net, IAF knows that rivals will always focus on Su-30 in a dogfight scenario that they will ignore smaller players in the field, Mirage-2000 and Mig-21 was flying at even closer range but PAF F-16 pilots still focused on Su-30 which created distraction good enough for Mig-21Bis to sneak in and kill an F-16 at close range .