Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16

randomradio said:
Nobody believes that story.

First, there's nothing to prove by doing that. All air forces know how standoff weapons are used, and anybody can do what PAF did that day. There was nothing special done by PAF.

Second, if the plan was to warn, then the PAF would have used bombs without their warheads or their fuses removed, or even training rounds. And PAF would have likely also provided a video proof of having loaded dummy bombs prior to the strike, especially if training rounds were used. But we were at the receiving end of actual bombs designed to kill.

So that was no warning, it was an actual attack.
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Fuses were removed.

rockstarIN said:
Why no mention of doosra pilot aka three minus two minus one?
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I have no idea about 2nd pilot.may be fratricide on our side as well.we can assume anything at this stage.
 
nair said:
How did you come to such a conclusion???? I would love to listen to this, as one should know the other side of the coin too....



So What makes you say that India had to Stop?? You have been reading the stand off thread, and if you could comprehend that thread, I am sure you would not have made the above post..


So you were informed what happend on Feb 27th onwards....... Do enlighten us.....
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DivineHeretic said:
Imagine this is Dec 7, 1941: Imperial Japanese forces have smashed the Battleships in Battleship Row, killed 2500+ and rendered the Pacific Fleet crippled in one decisive strike. They got away clean too.

Assume this is the speech FDR makes: I fear that this time USA will lose against Japan. Some how luck is with them as they decimated the Pacific Fleet USN couldnt even respond. On that day also USN lost 2500 men. Luck was not with USA that day for sure.

Or imagine this is September 1940: The Wehrmacht has smashed France out of the war and kicked in the face of British Expeditionary Army.
Winston Churchill goes infront of the Parliament: Gentlemen, I fear that this time Britain will lose against Pakistan. Some how luck is with them as they demolished the French and our army.

Of May, 1999: The lead scouting parties of Indian army have been cut down by well concealed, well positioned PA regulars in Kargil. The counterattacks have failed, two jets and a helicopter have been shot down. Another Reconnaisance aircraft damaged.

PM Vajpayee to Parliament: I fear that this time India will lose a small scale skirmish with Pakistan. Some how luck is with them as they caught Indian pilots. India lost IA and IAF men. Luck was not with India that day for sure.

Why the constant, relentless whining? If you have a problem do something about it. Atleast help find a solution about it. If you can't, stand aside and let people who have hope and courage do something about it. Your whining helps no one, is useless and rather annoying.
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You are wasting your time, no matter how logical you say there is always "ISI has infiltrated every institution in India" weapon that will trump all your logic.

Intelligence ka banda hai ;) he knows.
 
Arsalan123 said:
I have no idea about 2nd pilot.may be fratricide on our side as well.we can assume anything at this stage.
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Why is it that in Pakistan, No one questions Gafoora????? Ok fine you guys do not have the spine to question your military, But you can ask Imran khan right???? He also made a statement to your parliament( or was it to media) that Pakistan hold 2 pilots........
 
screambowl said:
I don't know why but I fear that this time India will lose a small scale skirmish with Pakistan. Some how luck is with them as they caught Indian pilot and India had to stop. If the message to Pakistani has been given that India does not want escalation and let's negotiate back channel and they still want to propagate then India will win. Bhagwad Geetha says negotiate till last resort.

On that day also India lost IAF men. Luck was not with India that day for sure.
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Luck not on our side specially economy.we always do lots of damage but we always fail.we have made this promise to us that we will not accept defeat this time no matter what.we know everything favors India but still we believe ourselves.we made bad strategies in the past and lost wars and even India acknowledge this bad strategy fact.we need right strategy.
 
screambowl said:
I don't know why but I fear that this time India will lose a small scale skirmish with Pakistan. Some how luck is with them as they caught Indian pilot and India had to stop. If the message to Pakistani has been given that India does not want escalation and let's negotiate back channel and they still want to propagate then India will win. Bhagwad Geetha says negotiate till last resort.

On that day also India lost IAF men. Luck was not with India that day for sure.
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Prabhu Charan kahan hain aapke. Ek baar photo kheech ke daal dete to hum saare log chhoo Ke dhany ho jaate.
 
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nair said:
Why is it that in Pakistan, No one questions Gafoora????? Ok fine you guys do not have the spine to question your military, But you can ask Imran khan right???? He also made a statement to your parliament( or was it to media) that Pakistan hold 2 pilots........
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Either we don't want to reveal because if we reveal to the world,India will attack or it was our own pilot.anyway this mystery is still unsolved.
 
Arsalan123 said:
Luck not on our side specially economy.we always do lots of damage but we always fail.we have made this promise to us that we will not accept defeat this time no matter what.we know everything favors India but still we believe ourselves.we made bad strategies in the past and lost wars and even India acknowledge this bad strategy fact.we need right strategy.
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If only your generals shared this feeling, and had a fraction of this courage and determination as brain washed kids like you.
 
Ashwin said:
And these Pakistanis makes fun of Bollywood.
This looks more like a Filmfare award show with mediocre actors.
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At least you have real video clip now.according to your media,you killed 350 during balakot strike.where is your real video? Sir bollywood movies and real life are totally different.

BlackOpsIndia said:
If only your generals shared this feeling, and had a fraction of this courage and determination as brain washed kids like you.
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Call me brain wash or jahadi or whatever you like.one thing is clear.we will not go down this time.
 
nair said:
How did you come to such a conclusion???? I would love to listen to this, as one should know the other side of the coin too....
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Because the assessment says so. It's easy for Pakistan to handle small scale skirmish than full scale war. Their land area is small and it's also easy for them to move forces out of their central cantonment to the LOC

nair said:
So What makes you say that India had to Stop?? You have been reading the stand off thread, and if you could comprehend that thread, I am sure you would not have made the above post..
Click to expand...

On that thread and going through it one can assess that if Abhinandan was not caught India had the escalatary initiative which was lost along with the narrative and this chap was blessing in disguise for Pakistan. And on that day India lost 6 brave men due to friendly fire. This shows there was some lack of luck.

nair said:
So you were informed what happend on Feb 27th onwards....... Do enlighten us.....
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If I was not informed then I am sure no one is on this forum and if some one is also informed he won't tell, so let's speculate.
Neither we have any video nor any wreckage or any pilot of their except for radar signature which is not sufficient to build the narrative. If this is not badluck then what it is? Can any one tell me this.

9 mahine mein bacha paida ho jata hai yahan yeh nahi pata ki what is the narrative of the government should people expect India should go for POK or the skirmish will happen only to prevent infiltrators coming all the time. Pata to hona chahiye kis liye fight hai?
DivineHeretic said:
Imagine this is Dec 7, 1941: Imperial Japanese forces have smashed the Battleships in Battleship Row, killed 2500+ and rendered the Pacific Fleet crippled in one decisive strike. They got away clean too.

Assume this is the speech FDR makes: I fear that this time USA will lose against Japan. Some how luck is with them as they decimated the Pacific Fleet USN couldnt even respond. On that day also USN lost 2500 men. Luck was not with USA that day for sure.

Or imagine this is September 1940: The Wehrmacht has smashed France out of the war and kicked in the face of British Expeditionary Army.
Winston Churchill goes infront of the Parliament: Gentlemen, I fear that this time Britain will lose against Pakistan. Some how luck is with them as they demolished the French and our army.

Of May, 1999: The lead scouting parties of Indian army have been cut down by well concealed, well positioned PA regulars in Kargil. The counterattacks have failed, two jets and a helicopter have been shot down. Another Reconnaisance aircraft damaged.

PM Vajpayee to Parliament: I fear that this time India will lose a small scale skirmish with Pakistan. Some how luck is with them as they caught Indian pilots. India lost IA and IAF men. Luck was not with India that day for sure.

Why the constant, relentless whining? If you have a problem do something about it. Atleast help find a solution about it. If you can't, stand aside and let people who have hope and courage do something about it. Your whining helps no one, is useless and rather annoying.
Click to expand...

Sir you are correct but you are mission one point. The narrative. All the wars which you have mentioned had some reason. What is India's narrative? Why should a soldier fight? The military itself has no goal! Some time it becomes POK sometimes Balochistan sometimes war against terrorism.
 
Arsalan123 said:
At least you have real video clip now.according to your media,you killed 350 during balakot strike.where is your real video? Sir bollywood movies and real life are totally different.
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Are you comparing ISPR to our media? Now where should I put your media tamasha in the likes of tauba tauba and warmongering?

Good that you admit our official press conferences are above all these dramas. You see, that's why when they say have enough evidence of an F-16 going down, we believe.
 
Arsalan123 said:
Luck not on our side specially economy.we always do lots of damage but we always fail.we have made this promise to us that we will not accept defeat this time no matter what.we know everything favors India but still we believe ourselves.we made bad strategies in the past and lost wars and even India acknowledge this bad strategy fact.we need right strategy.
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You have Talwar-E-Sulemani !!!
 
screambowl said:
Because the assessment says so. It's easy for Pakistan to handle small scale skirmish than full scale war. Their land area is small and it's also easy for them to move forces out of their central cantonment to the LOC



On that thread and going through it one can assess that if Abhinandan was not caught India had the escalatary initiative which was lost along with the narrative and this chap was blessing in disguise for Pakistan. And on that day India lost 6 brave men due to friendly fire. This shows there was some lack of luck.



If I was not informed then I am sure no one is on this forum and if some one is also informed he won't tell, so let's speculate.
Neither we have any video nor any wreckage or any pilot of their except for radar signature which is not sufficient to build the narrative. If this is not badluck then what it is? Can any one tell me this.

9 mahine mein bacha paida ho jata hai yahan yeh nahi pata ki what is the narrative of the government should people expect India should go for POK or the skirmish will happen only to prevent infiltrators coming all the time. Pata to hona chahiye kis liye fight hai?


Sir you are correct but you are mission one point. The narrative. All the wars which you have mentioned had some reason. What is India's narrative? Why should a soldier fight? To take back territory or stop or to defend it? The military itself has no goal!
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First return our second Pilot and Israeli Pilot and put 250gm nuclear device back to storage.
 
Ashwin said:
Are you comparing ISPR to our media? Now where should I put your media tamasha in the likes of tauba tauba and warmongering?

Good that you admit our official press conferences are above all these dramas. You see, that's why when they say have enough evidence of an F-16 going down, we believe.
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Where is iaf video of strikes?

zebra7 said:
First return our second Pilot and Israeli Pilot and put 250gm nuclear device back to storage.
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He died.your government knows about it.
 
screambowl said:
Because the assessment says so. It's easy for Pakistan to handle small scale skirmish than full scale war. Their land area is small and it's also easy for them to move forces out of their central cantonment to the LOC



On that thread and going through it one can assess that if Abhinandan was not caught India had the escalatary initiative which was lost along with the narrative and this chap was blessing in disguise for Pakistan. And on that day India lost 6 brave men due to friendly fire. This shows there was some lack of luck.



If I was not informed then I am sure no one is on this forum and if some one is also informed he won't tell, so let's speculate.
Neither we have any video nor any wreckage or any pilot of their except for radar signature which is not sufficient to build the narrative. If this is not badluck then what it is? Can any one tell me this.

9 mahine mein bacha paida ho jata hai yahan yeh nahi pata ki what is the narrative of the government should people expect India should go for POK or the skirmish will happen only to prevent infiltrators coming all the time. Pata to hona chahiye kis liye fight hai?


Sir you are correct but you are mission one point. The narrative. All the wars which you have mentioned had some reason. What is India's narrative? Why should a soldier fight? The military itself has no goal! Some time it becomes POK sometimes Balochistan sometimes war against terrorism.
Click to expand...
Could you repeat the question?? first clear what you want to know??
 
Arsalan123 said:
Luck not on our side specially economy.we always do lots of damage but we always fail.we have made this promise to us that we will not accept defeat this time no matter what.we know everything favors India but still we believe ourselves.we made bad strategies in the past and lost wars and even India acknowledge this bad strategy fact.we need right strategy.
Click to expand...

When did Pakistan have economy that you guys are worried about it? The upper and lower limits of Pakistan's GDP with the increasing populations is 6% growth rate and 2% growth rate of a constant GDP of some 237 Billion dollars respectively. The concerns regarding economy will come into play when you cross 35 crore population. Till then you can feed your self and India knows this. The day your 2% falls to 0% which may happen soon due to lack of private investment (FATF) that will be another concern, because in Pakistan the people and the army have the money. The system is bit different from the rest.
 
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Arsalan123 said:
one thing is clear.we will not go down this tim
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We will see and not long from now, after the way Imran and Bajwa was sweating on 27th night and begging for mercy and calling everyone to save them and unilaterally surrendering on Abhinandan you still think you won't go down! These moments define the depth and strength of leadership.

Arsalan123 said:
At least you have real video clip now.
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Which video? Do post here, not 1 hour long game show of PAF the actual clip.

Arsalan123 said:
Where is iaf video of strikes?
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You should ask Gafoor don't you think? Why was he screaming "pit gaye pit gaye" at 5AM in morning, he will tell you in detail about the clip and impact.
 
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