Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Let us Use a Simple Cricket Analogy

All Star Batsmen can have Many days of Net practice but their Real Test is in a Real Match , Unless they Score well in a Real Match , they are not considered as Worthy players

Same thing happened with IAF

A Small War after 48 years and Yet we expect 100 percent Perfection in Results

Air Exercises are one thing , Real war is another

It is NOT IAF ' s fault that we did not use them earlier

Had we used them earlier , our mistakes and deficiencies would have been Known to us

We Have NOT lost Anything that we should feel Sad about or Ashamed about , we have Only
gained valuable experience

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Pakistanis are Shameless people

Even after losing 4 wars , they can claim Victory in a small skirmish

Now that A NEW Normal has been created
By the Use of IAF , let us see how the PAF
Performs in the Next Conflict

Next Conflict is NOT far away

 

[m_itsme]

The bombs were live and had fuses in place. The aim was to hit Indian army formation centers. But they did not have that kind of pin point cordinates to do the strike. The miss distance of nearly 100mtrs shows the lack of accurate targeting data.

What do you mean? The video clearly shows the bomb being controlled and led to glide off the target to an empty plot. The IAF should have carried pout a similar Op. But, guess Modi stopped them due to elections.

 

[vstol Jockey]

What do you mean? The video clearly shows the bomb being controlled and led to glide off the target to an empty plot. The IAF should have carried pout a similar Op. But, guess Modi stopped them due to elections.

show me the video. Do you have any knowledge of aircraft and PGMs? If yes, I will post a detailed reply. If not, Please do not waste my time. Which aircraft fired these PGMs?

 

[_Anonymous_]

show me the video. Do you have any knowledge of aircraft and PGMs? If yes, I will post a detailed reply. If not, Please do not waste my time. Which aircraft fired these PGMs?

Sir , I think the rest of us would be very interested in your views on this, if you can oblige us.

 

[screambowl]

And who gives them opportunity to come up with their staged drama and such feku videos? Indians only


Why can't any one catch the statement of that officer who neglected the question of Using F16? This means that F16 was deployed and also crashed after the shot by Mig21 and they have been caught with their pants down.

IF YOU GUYS HAVE LITTLE SHAME LEFT STOP DISCUSSING STUPID THINGS OF LGB AIM AND 100m 80m MISSING TARGET ETC AND CONCENTRATE ON THE NEGLECTED QUESTION!!!

People like me will shout whole day and get banned on threads but no one will understand what the real thing is.

 

[Sulla84]

show me the video. Do you have any knowledge of aircraft and PGMs? If yes, I will post a detailed reply. If not, Please do not waste my time. Which aircraft fired these PGMs?

Below is the video:

Please watch from 10:00 onwards..

 

[vstol Jockey]

Sir , I think the rest of us would be very interested in your views on this, if you can oblige us.

I have not seen the videos. please give me the link to them. M5 do not have pilot aided guidance capability for the bombs.et data is fed before takeoff and bomb flies to the target based on GPS guidance. More accurate the data, more accurate the strike. entire world has geodetic 84 3D data of India and that has an error of nearly 100mtrs. The exact 3D data based on Geodetic100 is available only to US, Russia and Israel besides India. This gives you pin point accuracy of less than 10mtrs. But you need even more accurate data in ten digits or more to get pin point accuracy. We did Balakote because we could generate that kind of target cordinates. Does Pakistan and China have that ability? NO SIR.

 

[Sulla84]

And who gives them opportunity to come up with their staged drama and such feku videos? Indians only


Why can't any one catch the statement of that officer who neglected the question of Using F16? This means that F16 was deployed and also crashed after the shot by Mig21 and they have been caught with their pants down.

IF YOU GUYS HAVE LITTLE SHAME LEFT STOP DISCUSSING STUPID THINGS OF LGB AIM AND 100m 80m MISSING TARGET ETC AND CONCENTRATE ON THE NEGLECTED QUESTION!!!

People like me will shout whole day and get banned on threads but no one will understand what the real thing is.

Not pants down.. US did not give a shit that F-16 was used.. Between their plaque for the mig kill credits the AMRAAM. How, much more confirmation do you want ?

 

[screambowl]

Not pants down.. US did not give a shit that F-16 was used.. Between their plaque for the mig kill credits the AMRAAM. How, much more confirmation do you want ?

50 years olg Mig21 But not Su 30
And PAF officer's statement confirms that F16 went down as well

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Why should we even care for PAF Ceremonies and Nautankis

Their Target Audience is Indian public
Who will then Start Having Doubts
About our own Capabilities

All this Drama is Deliberate and Purposeful

After A Dis Satisfactory 1965 War , we had to wait for Six full years for Revenge

So pray for an Opportunity at the Earliest

 

[_Anonymous_]

I have not seen the videos. please give me the link to them. M5 do not have pilot aided guidance capability for the bombs.et data is fed before takeoff and bomb flies to the target based on GPS guidance. More accurate the data, more accurate the strike. entire world has geodetic 84 3D data of India and that has an error of nearly 100mtrs. The exact 3D data based on Geodetic100 is available only to US, Russia and Israel besides India. This gives you pin point accuracy of less than 10mtrs. But you need even more accurate data in ten digits or more to get pin point accuracy. We did Balakote because we could generate that kind of target cordinates. Does Pakistan and China have that ability? NO SIR.

I don't have the link to the video. But I was referring to the general theory that the PAF may have deliberately missed the targets. There are several reasons to back up this claim. To begin with, such a high profile attack on our air base or the IA Brigade HQ or even the ammo dump would've resulted in casualties. Which in turn would prompt India to up the ante which would certainly not be to Pakistan's liking at this point of time given their economy , internal security , their western frontiers and other issues.

This also neatly fits into the narrative they're promoting that the IAF either failed in Balakote or that the IAF deliberately missed. What justification could they offer to the international community if their counter attacks on the 27th Feb resulted in success and the matter escalated dangerously ? That they were responding in kind to the IAF attack on terrorist base camps which they themselves claim were failed attempts by targeting Indian armed forces?

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

Modi has Created Conditions through which
The Next Conflict is Inevitable

It is just a Matter of When

 

[vstol Jockey]

Below is the video:

Please watch from 10:00 onwards..

Have you heard the commentry alongwith the video? the guy says that pilot guided the bomb away from the target. The target and the actual impact is shown by a big box which is the intended target and the crosshair is where the bomb is going to impact. for an accurate strike the cross hair has to be in the center of this box. Thruout the video, I have seen that the box is way above the target and the bomb is also flying to the center of the box. This means that bomb from the very begining was flying to that area and it flew over the target. If the pilot had diverted the bomb, the target box would have been on the target and the cross hair would have been at the point of impact. Showing a delibrate miss as claimed by PAF. But video does not show that.

 

[screambowl]

I have not seen the videos. please give me the link to them. M5 do not have pilot aided guidance capability for the bombs.et data is fed before takeoff and bomb flies to the target based on GPS guidance. More accurate the data, more accurate the strike. entire world has geodetic 84 3D data of India and that has an error of nearly 100mtrs. The exact 3D data based on Geodetic100 is available only to US, Russia and Israel besides India. This gives you pin point accuracy of less than 10mtrs. But you need even more accurate data in ten digits or more to get pin point accuracy. We did Balakote because we could generate that kind of target cordinates. Does Pakistan and China have that ability? NO SIR.

What is the probability that PAF had access to military grade gps nav? So is it true that Chinese Beidou can't generate 10mtr cep military grade guidance? What about using LGB to direct the object towards the laser pointer?

 

[vstol Jockey]

What is the probability that PAF had access to military grade gps nav? So is it true that Chinese Beidou can't generate 10mtr cep military grade guidance? What about using LGB to direct the object towards the laser pointer?

PAF did not use LGBs. They used GPS guided bombs. The target picture for LGBs is a bit different but somewhat like this only. You have the target and the bomb pipper displayed in case the bomb has IR imagry feed back. Otherwise for an LGB, you will only get the cross hair picture from the designator.
The chinese GPS is also not so accurate. Even India has acquired this tech thru Israel only.

 

[m_itsme]

Have you heard the commentry alongwith the video? the guy says that pilot guided the bomb away from the target. The target and the actual impact is shown by a big box which is the intended target and the crosshair is where the bomb is going to impact. for an accurate strike the cross hair has to be in the center of this box. Thruout the video, I have seen that the box is way above the target and the bomb is also flying to the center of the box. This means that bomb from the very begining was flying to that area and it flew over the target. If the pilot had diverted the bomb, the target box would have been on the target and the cross hair would have been at the point of impact. Showing a delibrate miss as claimed by PAF. But video does not show that.

Sir, so are you saying they instead of choosing the HQ co-ordinates as target, on purpose they chose the empty plot co-ordinates as target? And let the bomb glide there? Or are you saying they put in the wrong co-ordinates by mistake and instead of the HQ the bombs targeted an empty plot?

 

[vstol Jockey]

Or are you saying they put in the wrong co-ordinates by mistake and instead of the HQ the bombs targeted an empty plot?

Yes. They have shown video of just one bomb and not of other 7. They had fired about a total of 8 of them. What about the videos of other 7 bombs.

 

[m_itsme]

Yes. They have shown video of just one bomb and not of other 7. They had fired about a total of 8 of them. What about the videos of other 7 bombs.

Yes, I agree. This is most likely the first bomb the fired. But, IAF is really bad in the propaganda dept even after this if they dont release the balakot SAR images [which i think they wont], its a shame, really.

 

[vikata]

Public has no say in it, ZERO so don't put it on public. Decision makers decide and public is then compelled to support by propaganda and narrative building.


Because we were told we won, no big deal winning from an inferior enemy and as more details emerges IAF has been a complete failure on almost all fronts and even on a front where Abhinandan went on personal risk his wingman abandoned him! Brothers in arms?

Should prepare for next Air show maneuvers instead of wasting tax payers money. Let more deserving IA and Navy in need of money get it.


Oh really? Is that why 5 pilots who released weapons are awarded Vayu Sena medal?

In 2016 Surgical strikes an officer killed 4 terrorist he got Shaurya Chakra. Here IAF killed 300 terrorists or so and got Vayu Sena medal? This medal is awarded if you land your aircraft in a hostile zone safely and complete the mission.

Is not similar to PAF lie of Su30 kill where kill of Mig21 got higher award than kill of Su30? More like face savings medals on both sides since you made a claim and you have to stick to it.

Next what stalemate with Bangladesh Air Force and country is told what a great victory it was? How great learning opportunity it was?

he has raised a very pertinent point but instead of countering it logically ppl are patronising and giving sermons .this is a democracy and no one can claim to be the repository of ultimate truth .we are not some banana republic where questions cant be asked.
the point is when we acknowledge we improve .
frankly the performance of IAF has left a lot to be desired ,lost in the meandering mirage of gold plated weapons.