Most likely dead and buried somewhere. Lets wait for another ten years. Then some Retd Pakistani Air Chief Marshall will write a book about this incident. Then we may gain some better insight.
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Air Battle over Kashmir : MiG-21 Bison shoots down F-16
- Thread starter Ashwin
- Start date
Most likely dead and buried somewhere. Lets wait for another ten years. Then some Retd Pakistani Air Chief Marshall will write a book about this incident. Then we may gain some better insight.
every pic shows just one engine wreck. If a Su-30MKI had been shot down, the engine part of the fuelage would have shown two engines and not just one.
As always with PKS, read his articles, save informative official spec boards he provides and be careful with his conclusion.
That is the critical point! We have...
...eyewitness accounts about that
...the official report that stated 2 fighters shot down and 3 parachutes as well,
which confirms each other. We also know, that the only twin seater in the area was the F16D and not even PAF is claiming to shoot down an MKI, which they would have celebrated in a big way for sure, but they tried and failed.
The only thing we doesn't have, is actual proof from the crash site, since neither Aim120, nor a fuel tank debris proves the crash of the F16 itself. All available pics doesn't show conclusive parts of the fighter, so that will remain a he said, he said.
At the end of the he day, it's just a hyped matter of pride. It neither was a real dogfight, nor does it really matter, when the much more important questions are around the strikes of both sides.
I don't think there is any doubt on the strike on this side of the border??
Other side is not very clear.....but I am very sure something credible will be out before April 15th
We have no pics or media assessment of the strike sites on our side. We don't even know officially what weapons PAF used. There were reports about dumb bombs or LGBs via F16s, but not confirmed.
Even more interesting is the rumored use of stand off weapons by Mirage or JF17, we saw pics of parts of it, but no confirmation about the use or damage they created.
Our strike is equally mysterious, because more and more details from ealier media reports get corrected. Recent reports suggest that the main hall / largest building was not targeted by IAF, contradicting all the media reports, that tried to disprove Reuters and made up justifications about the use of penetration warheads. The picture is getting clearer, but you have to differ between facts, fake, assumptions and jingoism, to get to a better understanding. And all that only about the Balakot strike, which reportedly was 1 out of 3 strikes, but we don't know anything about the other 2.
at 0:40 this video of F16 Crash shows the following, is this engine or part enclosing the engine?
Image from Pakistan:
Another F16 Crash picture: Source
Another angle:
Similar part?
Original Image Here
Article Here
I searched a lot and not many crash sites are available of F16 from up close and definitely not a video walkthrough as of like one Mig 21 so decide yourself.
I have a question, I think most of the Indian & Pakistani fighters are integrated with RWR.
But how many jets from both sides got MAWS/MWR? If it is not there, even a SAM will hit them without missile approach warning.
But how many jets from both sides got MAWS/MWR? If it is not there, even a SAM will hit them without missile approach warning.
Here is my take on what happened on that day.
Our guy was sent out from a CAP over Srinagar. The Ground control accurately guide him to the target and he sees the target at 9 o,clock to him. he goes into a decending turn from 15k to reduce his distance and radius of turn. The downward inclined turn has lower radius of turn. The PAF guy has to lift up as he has to negotiate the mountains in front and is forced to fly thru thru the plain of his attacker. This is the worst thing that you can do in air combat. Rising to get in the sights of your enemy. sit-1 shows how the aircraft were when the battle started. Sit-2 shows the downward turn by Abhi and upward turn by F-16. I went wrong as the climbing turn up is on right side in depiction. but my depiction shows left hand turn. The descending turn by Abhi helps him close on to F-16 as shown in sit-3. He reduces the angle to shoot down from over 100* to 60* in the process and gets a lock. The Su-30MKI is holding fort in the circle as shown between Katra and Udhampur. Mig-21 moves out away from it and is targeted by other F-16s/ground fire. The crosses show the likely hit points and the crash sites.
IMO, the ground control directed Mig-21 correctly and he kept his radar off to avoid being picked up. Under GCI, we do keep our radar off till the GCIO tells us go live and shoot-target 1/11 o clock to you. triggers live, clear live. it seems that keeping radar off while intercepting this F-16 denied Abhi the overall battle picture and he failed to detact the presence of F-16s in ambush mode. had he kept his radar on to use his R-77s, he would have seen these F-16s in ambush mode and also chosen to do what is depicted below,
he would have changed to give headon aspect to F-16s in ambush and stayed within the protection of Su-30MKI and yet shot down this F-16. I will call it an error of procedures we follow in GCI under AWACS.
Our guy was sent out from a CAP over Srinagar. The Ground control accurately guide him to the target and he sees the target at 9 o,clock to him. he goes into a decending turn from 15k to reduce his distance and radius of turn. The downward inclined turn has lower radius of turn. The PAF guy has to lift up as he has to negotiate the mountains in front and is forced to fly thru thru the plain of his attacker. This is the worst thing that you can do in air combat. Rising to get in the sights of your enemy. sit-1 shows how the aircraft were when the battle started. Sit-2 shows the downward turn by Abhi and upward turn by F-16. I went wrong as the climbing turn up is on right side in depiction. but my depiction shows left hand turn. The descending turn by Abhi helps him close on to F-16 as shown in sit-3. He reduces the angle to shoot down from over 100* to 60* in the process and gets a lock. The Su-30MKI is holding fort in the circle as shown between Katra and Udhampur. Mig-21 moves out away from it and is targeted by other F-16s/ground fire. The crosses show the likely hit points and the crash sites.
IMO, the ground control directed Mig-21 correctly and he kept his radar off to avoid being picked up. Under GCI, we do keep our radar off till the GCIO tells us go live and shoot-target 1/11 o clock to you. triggers live, clear live. it seems that keeping radar off while intercepting this F-16 denied Abhi the overall battle picture and he failed to detact the presence of F-16s in ambush mode. had he kept his radar on to use his R-77s, he would have seen these F-16s in ambush mode and also chosen to do what is depicted below,
he would have changed to give headon aspect to F-16s in ambush and stayed within the protection of Su-30MKI and yet shot down this F-16. I will call it an error of procedures we follow in GCI under AWACS.
Went through few threads in PDF , uuufff ...
They ll make us believe , we got nothing.. but lost 1, 2... No. . 4 aircrafts..
I could understand why Stephen Cohen is so impulsive here. ....
He must reading there everyday...
And I just realised,, they are preparing script for the history books that they won the 5 the war with India ..
The way things are currently (With little info and those who know has no access to internet) they are up for a rude shock.....
Any update on the pilot? Still in CMH?
Your last pic is a proof that the remaining section of missile is burned and mixed with F16 and this is best you can salvage or maybe a cheap replica of head in 4th missile. If it was never fired you would have got it like the first two, or maybe 3rd and 4th are one missile and placed aside in part to look it like 4 missiles. That's not even remotely convincing or conclusive.
21 days of hard work..... Poor guys never bothered to raise 1 question to Gafoora and Imran Niazi.....
So which one is it? Seeker from a crashed F-16 or cheap replica or separated parts? Stick to one version, young man.
Interestingly, all the displayed items can be cross-referenced from the photos and an HD video of the crash site. Also, Pakistan Army being the propaganda machine it is, I wonder how nobody in PA thought to forge the evidence and make the missing pieces in a simple machine shop. Could've taken less than 24 hrs.