Brahmos Supersonic Cruise Missile : News, Updates and Discussions

[Saaho]

ASMP is stato ==> it doesn't need to carry oxygene so total mass is divided by two.

Neither does Brahmos.

Both use kerosene in RAM-Jet for propulsion and suck oxygen from atmosphere as oxidizer. ASMP has inlet on its sides, Brahmos has inlet in its nose-cone. So its not that difference. Both also use a rocket cartridge to bring it up to speed to fire up its RAM-Jet.

Why is ASMP is so much more compact and lightweight is a mystery to me. Maybe MBDA knows something that rest of the world does not about making RAM-jets.

For comparison, P-800 Oniks from Russia and YJ-12 from China are both heave weapon. The closest weapon in its weight class is Kh-31 from Russia, but that is just having a range less than 130KM and a warhead capacity of less than 100 KG.

 

[Hydra]

The missile was fired just prior to 10 am and remained airborne for 15 minutes, covering a distance of 100 km. As per DRDO sources, while the indigenous engine tested successfully, the delivery platform encountered a technical hitch.

DRDO tests Nirbhay missile, indigenous engine a success: What you need to know about India's subsonic missile

The last test of the subsonic missile was carried out in October 2020 when the trial had to be aborted after just eight minutes.

www.timesnownews.com

So its failed again, i dont beleive the media reports like we already inducted this missile with forces.

 

[Sathya]

So its failed again, i dont beleive the media reports like we already inducted this missile with forces.

Indranil mentioned somewhere in Twitter.. We have around 20-30 nibhaya frames made as a batch.

 

[STEPHEN COHEN]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1425546583710576647

 

[Hydra]

Indranil mentioned somewhere in Twitter.. We have around 20-30 nibhaya frames made as a batch.

Just a speculation I guess. I do respect him,but he behaves like a an indigenous item fan boy most of the time. May be an attempt to boost homegrown equipment reputation or a deliberate attempt to stir confusion among enemies on our capabilities.
Logically no military will induct a complex platform like cruise missile which had encountered more than 60 percentage failure rate during developmental trials.
What I feel is that we should scrap Nirbhay program altogether and we should approach Russians or US for help. Being a member of MTCR technically these countries can sell their long range missiles to India, we have spend hell lot of time on developing this missile without any success.

 

[Saaho]

So its failed again, i dont beleive the media reports like we already inducted this missile with forces.

Deployed missiles are using Russian Turbofan engine.

 

[Hydra]

Deployed missiles are using Russian Turbofan engine.

Just 3 successful tests out of 7 before the deployment news came. U still beleive that news about deployment? Also not tested for full range in last successful test too.
FYI the brand new failure of yesterday is due to missile proble asper that link,not on engine. It says missile is having glitches still.

 

[Saaho]

FYI the brand new failure of yesterday is due to missile proble asper that link,not on engine. It says missile is having glitches still.

Details are not provided. Many times in integrating new components, neither component in itself are faulty but integration is not correct. Any engineering student knows, integration is the hardest problem there.

 

[Hydra]

Details are not provided. Many times in integrating new components, neither component in itself are faulty but integration is not correct. Any engineering student knows, integration is the hardest problem there.

View attachment 20568

User doesn't care about those things,they don't need to.what user is required is credible, reasonably reliable product. Nirbhay & the word reliable didn't go together till today. And there is no any official statement from military on Nirbhay deployment,what we have is some fanboys statements/reporting/tube videos.

 

[Saaho]

User doesn't care about those things,they don't need to.what user is required is credible, reasonably reliable product. Nirbhay & the word reliable didn't go together till today. And there is no any official statement from military on Nirbhay deployment,what we have is some fanboys statements/reporting/tube videos.

If you want to be really honest, you don't know what was tested and what was achieved or what failed. There are always "un-named sources" used by media. You don't even know if this was Nirbhay or something totally different. All that was there was some reporting in media. There is no official word of test besides perhaps NOTAM.

 

[Hydra]

If you want to be really honest, you don't know what was tested and what was achieved or what failed. There are always "un-named sources" used by media. You don't even know if this was Nirbhay or something totally different. All that was there was some reporting in media. There is no official word of test besides perhaps NOTAM.

The first part is always true for each and every missile we tests,none failed the way Nirbhay did. This itself shows how pathetic is it's development.
I said about induction & deploymen, if I am not wrong military used to accept induction of new platform,like what they did with Astra or Akash.

 

[Saaho]

I said about induction & deploymen, if I am not wrong military used to accept induction of new platform,like what they did with Astra or Akash.

Military has also accepted weapons platform before official induction, like in Kargil Pinaka was accepted hastily while the first regiment was raised officially in 2000.

 

[Saaho]

The first part is always true for each and every missile we tests,none failed the way Nirbhay did.

Astra has a massively chequered past dating back to 1998. So is trishul which is now being deployed as QRSAM after a lot of further development.

Besides, we do not know what has failed. Fifth and Sixth test of the missile was a success. The project was closed afterwards. To be honest, we do not know what exactly has been tested. Is it Nirbhay? Is it something else? There is no official word per say.

 

[Saaho]

The first part is always true for each and every missile we tests

For a number of missiles, DRDO usually issues a statement about test and its result.

 

[AbRaj]

Looks like we need another F15 Xxx

 

[Chain Smoker]

Nirbhay Got these tiny X-tail fins with a very low aspect ratio (literally 1-1.15 AR) - I fail to see how those fins could be doing anything for yaw stability at slow speeds. Also, think about the downwash/wake interference of those wings on the lower two fins of the x-tail. Maybe this is why they moved the wings down in later versions - thus minimising one problem and adding a brand new one for the FCS to keep the vehicle stable in the roll axis as well.

Not to say this is the problem - but I'm 100% sure the FCS is working over time keeping that thing straight in flight. Add to this weather, winds, complicated routes/trajectories with lots of sharp turns etc. and then you quickly start to see why the others have gone for dedicated vertical stabilisers.

- You see French Mdcn also with small tail fins but better AR (around 2) and still much bigger - also they have gone for a less challenging dedicated vertical stabiliser. Absolutely didn't want complicate yaw stability.

- Look at Storm Shadow/SCALP and you will see how much they have had to think about placement to maintain effectiveness from the tiny stabilisers - and they too use twin dedicated vertical stabilisers completely out of the wake of the wing - despite the fact it compromises stealth.

- Tomahawk doesn't bother with any of these challenges and just uses 3 simple HUGE stabilisers including a dedicated vertical. Maybe they learnt from older Tomahawks that had a low aspect ratio "Plus-tail" similar to Nirbhay X-tail. However, + instead of x means just you get 2 dedicated vertical stabilisers, only one of which is minimally affected with downwash/wake (downwash and wake affect horizontal fins more than vertical). That said, older Tomahawks also had a pretty tardy failure rate - up to 20%.

We've heard a lot about Nirbhay veering off-course. Initially I thought its the TRN/TERCOM playing up but then this is above sea. Maybe it's the above issue? The nav and autopilot could be configured correctly but maybe the FCS isn't able to translate into actual due to that tail? I'm 100% sure the people at ADE know stuff like this. I am also 200% sure that sometimes basic mistakes are made and persisted on projects run by competent people/organisations.
@Gautam

 

[screambowl]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1425338254539169799

Flew 150 km, is it a miss reporting on range? Or another failure from Nirbhay

I do respect him,but he behaves like a an indigenous item fan boy most of the time. May be an attempt to boost homegrown equipment reputation or a deliberate attempt to stir confusion among enemies on our capabilities

Pakistan yesterday tested it's Hatf III 250km range BM in response to Indian test, they didn't test babur or raad. So you can asses whether it was a failure or success.

 

[Bon Plan]

Neither does Brahmos.

Both use kerosene in RAM-Jet for propulsion and suck oxygen from atmosphere as oxidizer. ASMP has inlet on its sides, Brahmos has inlet in its nose-cone. So its not that difference. Both also use a rocket cartridge to bring it up to speed to fire up its RAM-Jet.

Why is ASMP is so much more compact and lightweight is a mystery to me. Maybe MBDA knows something that rest of the world does not about making RAM-jets.

For comparison, P-800 Oniks from Russia and YJ-12 from China are both heave weapon. The closest weapon in its weight class is Kh-31 from Russia, but that is just having a range less than 130KM and a warhead capacity of less than 100 KG.

The loads of ASMP and ASMP-A are lighter than those of Brahmos. And I think that the max range of ASMP and ASMP-A is not fully in low level, but a part in high altitude, mach 3+ speed.

 

[randomradio]

I always wonder this. How come France has ASMP-A as a weapon of choice for "just before strategic" weapons since 1987. This system is remarkably light : less than 900 KG. It has a remarkable range 300-400 KM and has a payload of about 300 KG. A comparable project by India in 2010s ie Brahmos Air Launched missile weighs 2500 KG. For that matter, its upgrade will be about 1500 KG and that is supposed to be "Next Generation". What is fundamentally keeping Brahmos so heavy?

Just check the dimensions, will ya?

Also, the Brahmos has a lot more space for payload since it needs to carry a large conventional warhead.

 

[Hydra]

Military has also accepted weapons platform before official induction, like in Kargil Pinaka was accepted hastily while the first regiment was raised officially in 2000.

Ok,for time being let us forget about the fact that you are comparing an artillery with a dedicated missile.
How many failures did pinaka have before firing towards enemy positions?

Astra has a massively chequered past dating back to 1998. So is trishul which is now being deployed as QRSAM after a lot of further development.

Besides, we do not know what has failed. Fifth and Sixth test of the missile was a success. The project was closed afterwards. To be honest, we do not know what exactly has been tested. Is it Nirbhay? Is it something else? There is no official word per say.

I don't think qrsam & Trishul are same.

Fifth & sixth tests were successful,but they didn't tests for full range.

For a number of missiles, DRDO usually issues a statement about test and its result.

Ys,why they always keep their mouth shut towards Nirbhay?