Brahmos Supersonic Cruise Missile : News, Updates and Discussions
- Thread starter Manmohan_MMY
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Please stop comparing us with pakistan for time being. We don't need to see what they are doing what they are not doing. The threat we are facing is far more serious than what pakistan is facing.
We need a credible long range terrain hugging missile to penetrate Chinese air defence.
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Let see, shall we?
Brahmos has total weight of 3000 KG for land variant and 2500 KG for air launched variant. It is 8 and a half meter long and about 50-60 cm in diameter.
ASMP-A is is 5.8 meter long and 38 meter in diameter.
Both missile have payload capacity of 200 KG - 300 KG. Brahmos warhead capacity is documented. ASMP carried T-81 warhead having a max yield of 300KT, quite similar to B61 bomb (340KT) used by USA which weighs about 700 pounds(320KG). Another reference is light weight W80 cruise missile warhead which weighs about 130KG and has a yield of 150 KT max. So ASMP warhead weighs about 200-300 KG too, making their respective warhead capacity very very similar.
PS : Note that I do not compare with ballistic missile warheads because those may also include weight of RV.
Both the missiles have similar warhead weight and similar weight and similar range 500-600 KM (CONSIDERING Brahmos range is understated). One of them weighs less than one third of the other.
Apparently the top most scientist of the Zircon Hypersonic Missile program has been arrested for espionage & consequently treason for leaking info to a NATO country. In a related development the CEO of the Brahmos JV has announced that Brahmos - 2 which is expected to be hypersonic is expected to get an Indian scramjet which makes me wonder what's the JV about ?
When I pointed out that for the same payload & range Indian BMs are the heaviest ( sometimes with both payload & range on the lower side ) in the business I was laughed at . I guess both India & China owe a lot to Russia in terms of the design philosophy of BMs ( at least in case of India ) apart from other systems which makes it the heaviest in the game. Ongoing programs focussing on upgrades tend to shave off quite a bit of weight viz the Agni program. It's a continuous never ending process.
OK, but X shaped rear wings are common in cruise missiles.
Why only Nirbhay is failing due to that?
Actually, its true for supersonic cruise missiles too.
YJ-12 the Chinese development from Kh-31 supersonic missile weighs about 2500 KG and has a similar range as Brahmos air launched variant.
Another is CX-1 which looks awefuly similar to brahmos.
All of these point to the similar linage, capabilities and limitations.
YJ-12 is essentially an elongated Kh-31. CX-1 is derived out of P-800 or more likely Kh-41.
All of these are based on soviet work on RAM jets back in 70s and 80s, so they share similar limitations too.
French ASMP is based on MBDA's research on RAM jets in 70s and 80s and has a different implementation. Possibly they know something about RAM jets that Soviets did not.
ASMP's warhead is smaller and its nuclear payload is 200Kg and less. Brahmos has primarily been made to carry conventional warheads which are bigger. So the weight of the warhead doesn't tell you enough. With an increased volume for the warhead compartment, it also needs increased dimensions, hence the need for greater power, which will mean increased fuel load hence the bigger size and weight. Simply put it's unlikely for the ASMP to carry a conventional warhead of the same capability as what's on the Brahmos since it's not been designed for such a role.
The missiles are simply not in the same class either. One is a land-based conventional missile that needs to climb to high altitude on its own power, whereas the other is simply a nuclear platform which is fired at high speed and from high altitude from the get-go.
The Brahmos-A is merely a modification of the land-based system and can't be compared to a system that has been designed from the ground up to be air-launched with a nuke.
Source? I could not find a SINGLE source mentioning its warhead capacity. The only way is to work it out based on known comparable warheads.
Errr... Nope. What you are talking about is volumetric capacity. No volumertric capacity is not as much responsible for heavier missile. You can shape the missile differently.
There is air launched version of Brahmos as well. I used it for comparison too. 2500 KG in weight. And not to mention proposed "modernized" version of air launched Brahmos called NG. Even that is proposed to be 1500 KG in weight. That almost double the weight of a missile designed in 1980s.
Heck, even the proposed NG variant of brahmos, optimized for being launched from air will weight 1500 KG.
Lets even leave this all. There is NO russian supersonic air launched missile with similar charecterstics as ASMP (let alone ASMP-A). No wonder there is no equivalent Indian or Chinese super sonic cruise missile with similar charecterstics.
First prototype of Brahmos-NG to be ready by 2024
The five-metre-long, 50-centimetre-thick, and 1.5 ton Brahmod-NG is half the dimensions of the Brahmos missiles currently in service today with the Indian Air Force (IAF), Army, and the Navy.
Ceteris Paribus ASN4G an upgrade of the ASMP-A , is expected to be a hypersonic missile with much the same dimensions as that of the ASMP . Hence while the Brahmos NG is definitely an improvement over the Brahmos - A version , in terms of compactness the ASMP & it's various versions scores over the Brahmos.
Lol. So the 0.6m diameter vs 0.38m diameter is not a giveaway? Don't you know you need to carry a great volume of conventional explosives to have any sort of impact?
The missile is not in the same class, carries the same payload or performs the same role.
The air-launched version is simply a modification of an existing missile. I've already mentioned it.
As for NG, let's see what the actual weight will be, since even the LCA is expected to carry it.
The Russians never bothered to make one since they don't need one. Even the US doesn't. Only France operates such a missile. They very likely have such a design because they do not have bombers of their own and they need the extra range because Russia is far away from France.
Apparently the hypersonic Zircon missile with a range of 1000 kms & a warhead weighing 300-400 kgs also weighs 3 tons. Of course we're referring to the Naval version but I'm guessing even if it were to appear in an ALCM role it'd still weigh close to 2 tons with some other parameters being compromised.
No because of incompetency, Nirbhay used to fail even before we being mtcr member/signatory or whatever. Dont blame foreigners for our failures. Infact we dont have any offer from abroad on Nirbhay class CM.
Which other missiles have rear fins like nirbhay afaik all the missiles are having vertical stabilizers. Only older version of tomahawk had that but it also resulted in high failure rate.