Depends which story is true.
$285m is nothing as regards fighter development.
British/Italian Tempest (GCAP) Fighter : News and Discussion
- Thread starter Shekhar Singh
- Start date
Yeah, it's nothing compared to the overall costs, but it still resulted in a backtrack. You have to spend a lot to stay in it, which Sweden hasn't yet done.
Anyway, it's not a good idea for Saab to join the Tempest program. Sweden needs to design their own jet based on their own operational requirements, which is not the same as what UK and Italy need. What the Swedes need is something like @vstol Jockey's MSA. For India as well, the 33 ton FGFA was a bit over the top so it was a good idea for us to back off as well.
It's actually a good idea if the Swedes find a third world country to play along with, like what the Koreans are doing with Indonesia.
For something like the Tempest or FCAS, no. But for a Gripen successor, very likely, especially if a next gen engine comes in from UK or France. But they definitely need a foreign partner in order to boost their production numbers. For example, Vietnam needs replacements for 100+ Mig-21s, some of which could be Gripen-E and then transition on towards the next gen one. And Sweden is the least likely to irk China if they become Vietnam's primary supplier. Brazil is a natural partner as well. So the Swedes have two options already. Plus the export market for fighter jets will be more mature considering poor countries today will be able to absorb some 20-30 years down the line.
Russia's going to be the most powerful European country over the next 20 years. Although it won't be as bad as the Soviet Union, the Russians will still pose enough of a threat that Sweden will need to maintain its own indigenous aerospace capability. Plus China's also going to make an entry into Northern Europe by then, I won't be surprised if the Chinese maintain a 24/7 carrier presence in the North Atlantic and Arctic in the 2040s. So the Swedish concern should be more about national security than funding.
Of course, an alternate viewpoint is the Swedes can participate in the Tempest for 2 squadrons and then build a large Gripen-sized highly agile drone fleet ndigtenously to act as loyal wingmen to the Tempest. Best of both worlds.
They already have the Gripen E coming, but that won't cut it against upcoming stealth fighters (J-20, Su-57 etc.).
Secrets of Tempest’s ground-breaking radar revealed
Radar engineers on the sixth-generation Tempest fighter program say they will break data-processing records by way of miniaturization and going digital.
www.c4isrnet.com
Tempest will cut it though, but simply adding some more electronics to a Gripen and calling it a Gripen F won't.
They have/had their own program called Flygsystem 2020. This has since been replaced by Flygsystem 2025. What's unclear is if it's a program or a study.
Considering they have not yet openly committed to Tempest, it appears it is a program.
The thing is they do not need to invest a lot in Tempest in the first place. They can probably enter the engine program and then use it in their fighter jet. Possibly just the drone programs under Tempest, even weapons. We might end up seeing Swedish investment only in the combat cloud and other aspects, while the main fighter jet will be different for both. Far too many combinations availale.
Flygsystem 2025 has no real content from what I've seen, it's roughly where FCAS was in the '90s.
The Gripen E is barely finished and barely better than 20 year old planes. I haven't even seen a mock-up of their next plane.
It's already equipped with an AESA radar which is more than can be said about the Eurofighter. If it were to go head on with the Eurofighter, I'd certainly not be betting on the latter, were I you.
On a different note, it seems as clear as daylight that all the rejects of the Franco German project are weaseling together in the Tempest project which brings me to 2 important questions.
Where's the money to finance your dream project & when do we get to see a FSED as proof of concept or is it going to be all glitzy videos , power point presentations & the occasional PR piece from some obscure journal / newspaper like The Guardian/ magazine / portal like Yahoo - reputed in the past but well past it's expiry period today.
The Gripen E is not a half-arsed upgrade like what's planned for the Typhoon. The only thing that's better on the Typhoon today is its superior airframe for supersonic performance, it's behind the Gripen E in every other important parameter.
A mock-up is irrelevant. Only a sanctioned project is relevant. And looking at govt reports from Sweden at this time, it doesn't appear they are putting all their eggs in the Tempest basket.
The Gripen E isn't really in full service yet either and its radar is just a smaller version of the Captor-E.
The money to finance it is the money we were paying the EU.
How so, as pointed out, the radar is just a smaller version of the Captor-E design, it's fuel fraction is terrible also. I think it would struggle to compete with a fully upgraded F-16.
By that token, all your projects are irrelevant too.
The opposite. Even if the radar is similar to Captor-E, the rest of the avionics are much more modern, including the new EW suite. It has a proper directional high speed datalink while the Typhoon uses the same old Link 16. It comes with IMA, satcom and so on. It's a full scale modernisation, not just the same old-same old with merely a new radar, that would only be an upgrade.
Its fuel fraction is the same as the Typhoon.
In any case, if the Swedes take the decision to chase after FS 2025, then it's going to be after the Gripen E/F are completed over the next 2 years.
How so? All our projects that we are talking about now have already been sanctioned. Including the AMCA, which is entering the prototype stage. Right now Tempest and FS 2025 are still in the feasibility study phase, even the configurations have not been decided yet.
Processing power and ability to shoot will become irrelevent when we go into 6th gen fighters. The need to have 360* coverage, to identify friend and foe will always remain relevent. Co-operative targeting, differential and directional shooter and controller capabilities will redefine the furure air battles.
Well duh, the plane is 20 years newer, but you can upgrade electronics. JFC, how could the plane come out 20 years later and still have the same age of electronics. I say 'out' except it isn't really even in service yet. The fact is it's still a 4th gen plane, just with better avionics.
But all you have is mock-ups either way. The UK at least has experience with FOAS F-35, Taranis and Replica work, as well as experience with Typhoon. You're only experience is with Tejas and finally realising that the Su-57 isn't a stealth fighter after everyone had been telling you just that for 10 years.
Nope, it's significantly more advanced than just a "4th gen" plane. The only thing that's 4th gen about it is its airframe and engine, it's much more than a 5th gen when it comes to avionics.
You didn't do much in F-35. Taranis was just a small drone, can't compare it to a fighter jet. And Replica was literally the replica of a real aircraft.
We did a lot more in terms of design with the FGFA, than you have with F-35 and Replica. It was a production-ready model for flight testing before it was cancelled. We also have a 1:1 scale model of the AMCA for RCS testing, and it's a model intended to make a jet for operational use, not just a model for basic testing like you did with Replica. We also have a full scale program for a Taranis/Neuron type drone, it's expected to enter prototype production this year. All of Europe is yet to begin.
That's not why we got out of Su-57. We got out because we decided to go for the AMCA instead. But the Su-57 is still an option for either a small flyaway purchase or license production. The joint development is the one that's dead obviously. As long as the political situation with Russia is considered to be stable in the foreseeable future, we may exercise either of the two options.
A 4th gen airframe isn't going to cut it. A Typhoon with a larger version of the same radar tech would beat it in an engagement and outfly it on any mission.
15% of the workshare for the F-35, a small working stealth drone is far more than Sweden or India has done. A replica of a stealth aircraft, which is again more than you.
Yeah, it took you ages to realise it wasn't stealth though, you have no clue about stealth.
Definitely. But that's really not what we are discussing.
Against the Gripen? No chance. Just upgrading the radar won't make a difference. The Typhoon needs next gen avionics with sensor fusion. Maybe if a proper Tranche 4 is made with next gen avionics, then we can talk about it.
Haha. Okay.