Future Combat Air System (FCAS) - France/Germany
- Thread starter randomradio
- Start date
But there's no value in it for them or anyone else if they abstain all the time. They can have themselves ignored equally well as a general member.
Their vote is influenced by oil supply and weapons supply, not by where they sit.
No, had we become part of the P5 after the Cold War, then we wouldn't have needed to depend on just one major supplier.
Also it was the failure of our own defence industry that we had to rely on imports over the last 30 years. But a P5 entry would have given us access to technology too. Rather it was denied throughout the 90s and 2000s and only the Russians responded positively.
You didn't need to anyway, it was your choice because of your 1971 and pre-1947 fixations. A seat on the P5 would not have changed that.
A seat on the P5 doesn't give access to technology, that makes zero sense. Russia responded positively to having their dick sucked? Of course they did.
Based on the tones I've received from many on this forum throughout this Ukraine-Russia conflict, I don't want them anywhere near the P5. They're either remarkably gullible, or remarkably callous, or a combination thereof.
Then like the Rafale, it will start with obsolete tech and still play catch-up after 30 years. GMTI
GMTI is adressed.
obsolete? UAE and Greece are purchasing obsolete tech instead ot taking that beautifull american tech F35? you are not serious Bro.
Too many australian sun on your small head maybe?
Nope. The P5 seat wouldn't have forced us to shelve indigenous programs in the 70s in exchange for Soviet support. We could have balanced relations with both sides then, and this would have allowed easier flow of technology and manpower into India, like it did after the 2000s.
Today, our economy gives us the heft we need... at least eventually.
You're just sheep. You guys literally believe anything when a good vs evil narrative is thrown at you as long as you believe you're good. Even the German Nazis believed they were the good guys.
YF-23 with similar design already flew in 1990s. Su 75 will have similar design and russians arent calling it 6th gen or revolutionary design. Not only drdo IUSAV or ghatak but CATS warrior will feature similar design and that is HAL-newspace project which all will be flying within 5 years. Therefore, multiple agencies in India are confident with this design. This is the reason i said its not revolutionary considering YF-23 flew in 1990s.
Can you please provide the exact details of how SCAF engine will be better than AMCA coz we know the requirements for AMCA engine but not able to find the requirements of SCAF engine. Also i request you to provide the details of dimensions of SCAF coz i m not able to find that also. It will be great knowledge boosting.
As far as i have gathered the objectives of SCAF is a stealth fighter with AI capable of firing next gen weapons like hypersonic missiles and dew, accompanied by unmanned loyal wingman, steath UCAV, MALE & swarm drones and combat cloud. This is all same as AMCA which will be capable of dew & hypersonic missile firing with CATS, IUSAV, FUFA, new drdo MALE and ACID. I found no different or advanced objective of SCAF. Infact many of these technologies will appear with tejas mk2 and their matured and advanced versions will come with AMCA.
As far as i knw our requirement is of a engine with T/W>12 with lots of electrical power to use combat systems, communication systems and lasers/dew weapons. so simply M88 derived wont suffice. It is a requirement that can only be met by futuristic engine. Also safran presentation offer clearly mentioned India will become autonomous in future engine technology. So I believe engines will be same or contemporary.
this is not a right comparison, F15 and eurocanards are developed 30 years apart whereas NGAD and SCAF will be developed around same time. Correct comparison will be F22 and eurocanards. No matter how many advanced versions of rafale & eurofighter may come they cannot beat an upgraded F22. So NGAD will remain a notch above SCAF & tempest.
Our engine requirements are same as that of SCAF & Tempest so the engine should also be contemporary otherwise it wont serve the purpose. Thats why i say again that AMCA will be contemporary to SCAF.
I once again request you to provide specific details of requirements and program objectives of SCAF to prove it otherwise.
It will be great for all of enthusiasts here in this forum to compare detail by detail the future programs.
The main goal of the SCAF is to fulfill the french defense doctrine.
This is not having a market.
Ideally the SCAF should be sold only to french forces.
Today, the Rafale program doesn't need to sell any fighter, from the french gov perspective. It's only Dassault's interests to sell more.
Your post seems to be in marked contrast to what @Picdelamirand-oil had posted on the French aerospace ecosystem sometime back. He clearly stated that for any French aircraft project to become financially viable they needed to sell as many units abroad as they manufactured to service their own needs.
Why should the FCAS project be different? After all 40-50 billion Euros expended ( whether in a solo effort or in a JV) in close to 2 decades is still a substantial sum of money even for a nation with the kind of economy France has. And these represent only the developmental costs. Manufacturing would add to the bill.
Decisions you made in the 1970s were nothing to do with seating arrangements at the UN, let's be honest about that please. You still make completely rash decisions even today based on pre-1947 and 1971, I hear them on this forum all the time, especially recently.
You guys believe a captive press over a free one. If someone started quoting North Korean or Chinese press over Indian press, you would respond the same way. Compared to the USSR, the Nazis were the good guys for many in Eastern Europe and in any case, Russia were their allies for the first two years of the war, they only changed sides because the Nazis attacked them. So it's somehow ironic that they're leaping on the Nazi theme to brand an entire country with free supervised elections, especially while implementing a Goebbels-style control over their own media and free speech within Russia. It's also ironic that a country who named an island after a guy who supported the Nazis is now so fiercely critical of such. You are confused sheep. Two Nazi collaborators crying 'Nazi' at the world's largest bunch of democracies. There's a fantastic world out there beyond your ar5e, pop your head out and take a look.
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No.
From the start, the Rafale program could be maintained viable with 11 planes / year.
The french state signed a deal and had to buy those 11 planes a year
Selling abroad was required to help french state not to buy all those planes each year, giving air in the defense budget.
From the start, the Rafale program could be maintained viable with 11 planes / year.
The french state signed a deal and had to buy those 11 planes a year
Selling abroad was required to help french state not to buy all those planes each year, giving air in the defense budget.
Ger a load of this BS by this PoS . I can cite umpteen examples of this - should've been aborted as a foetus - post derogatory stuff about Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose just because he took the aid of the Nazis .
Something that would have got him a long ban if not a permaban on any & every other Indian forum , no questions asked . @Amal
But when it comes to Eastern Europe with the war in Ukraine , the Nazis have suddenly become acceptable & collaboration with them by various ethnic groups & nationalities kosher.
Of course in all this you'd never find a word in it about the role of the government of RoI or the IRA , wherein the former was rigidly neutral in WW-2 much to Churchmouse's consternation , frustration & anger while the latter mounted a low key campaign of sabotage getting aid from the Nazis.
This is the classic double standards & casual racism of the Britshits I was referring to . @Saaho
Stalin allied with the Nazis as none of his signals to the British & French were being answered & given the Nazis own antipathy to the Communists symbolised best by how the RW groups not restricted to the Nazis in particular in the Weimar Republic went after the Communists in Germany particularly after the Nazis came to power , he was sure that given a chance the British or / and the French would cut a deal with the Nazis leaving the USSR to face the brunt .
None of this is discussed in great detail even today in academia in the west leave aside the lay public & certainly not in pubs like O'Shea because it just doesn't suit the western narrative .
For confirmation please check on the dates of the Munich Agreement & who were the actors involved there & the Molotov Ribbentrop pact
Munich Agreement - Wikipedia
Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact - Wikipedia
A great deal of this was out in the open when access to the German archives was possible after VE in 1945 but suppressed to promote the narrative of no compromise with evil & UK single handedly took on the might of the Nazis after the fall of practically all of Europe particularly the existing co super power of the day - France .
All this & much more was confirmed &/or revealed following the collapse of the USSR when the archives there were thrown open to researchers but by then popular interest in the subject was on the wane although all this information can easily be accessed on the internet .
Then again I'm referring to the situation prior to the war in Ukraine . Given the way Russia is being demonized & the de platforming of various Russian media on MSM & SM I wonder if this hasn't been extended to past history which was otherwise only a click away.
The above is a classic case of the utter failure of western education to inculcate a spirit of critical inquiry & independent thinking in students of STEM studies . I've yet to come across students of the humanities ever display it .
Then again it could be a function of the ethnicity in question for let's face it just as not all men are created equal not all ethnicities are capable of cognitive powers leave aside critical cognitive powers requiring great powers of discernment which is why I'm in opposition to the critical race theory .
If ever one is in doubt about this argument please follow the member whose posts I've quoted , bookmark this post & compare it with his posts in the future & you'd find that everytime without fail this post of mine would hold true & the said member's behaviour would be in complete conformance to whatever has been written here .
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One of the French posters should explain it to you. You are quite wrong about selling overseas. It was the cornerstone.