Very highly technical data presented. Educative and helps any common mechanical Engineer to acquire the detailed knowledge on Aero space components. Thanks a lot.
Excellent video, thanks for sharing
So the GTRE Director hints that we are developing Kaveri++ 85kN version. The investment required/asked for by DRDO is $2.5 billion but I couldn't get a clear answer from the interview whether the GoI has provided or planned to invest this much. Also, no clear answer regarding HAETF and FTB since the journo didn't ask for these specifically but the director said that all these have been proposed to GoI when talking about overall test facilities. So things are moving forward in the background, hopefully we will get a better picture in the near future or maybe another interview will shed more light regarding all these things.
He is saying that Kaveri can be upgraded after they absorb the missing technologies they need to master through collaboration with a foreign partner for the 110Kn engine.Excellent video, thanks for sharing
So the GTRE Director hints that we are developing Kaveri++ 85kN version. The investment required/asked for by DRDO is $2.5 billion but I couldn't get a clear answer from the interview whether the GoI has provided or planned to invest this much. Also, no clear answer regarding HAETF and FTB since the journo didn't ask for these specifically but the director said that all these have been proposed to GoI when talking about overall test facilities. So things are moving forward in the background, hopefully we will get a better picture in the near future or maybe another interview will shed more light regarding all these things.
The investment of $2.5 billion is for the AMCA 110Kn engine development which will include infra like HATB and FTB. The case is with the government.
I again watched the entire video and made a short summary as posted below. We are getting confused since they are talking about both 4th gen Kaveri and 5th gen JV engine simultaneously and the Director himself corrects his investment figures for 4th and 5th gen engines later in the interview. The GTRE director says towards the end of the interview from 34:24 that we need $2.5 billion for 85 kN engine and more than that for 120 kN while at the beginning of the interview from 17:48 to 17:56 he says we need $2.5 billion for 5th gen engine!
We are developing technologies on our own instead of waiting for the JV for 5th and 6th gen tech, my understanding of the 5th gen engine JV is that we want to take a good look/understand/ToT of the mass manufacturing technologies for making a military jet engine which we will further spinoff to commercial engines as well which the GTRE Director also alludes to in the interview.
Please note than the below incomplete summary is my interpretation of the interview and I would strongly urge forum members to watch the full interview to get the entire picture. I am only providing summary for the parts that I found relevant!
From 5:33 to 7:16
What has been achieved in Kaveri engine?
Total no of engines = 13 (9 full + 4 core)
Tested for 3400 hrs. including GTRE testbed + HAT (180 hrs.) + FTB (57 hrs.) at CIAM
Achieved 49kN vs 52kN (based upon what was tested way back at CIAM)
Safety + life reliability test completed
T/W achieved 6.5 supposed to be 8
From 7:25 to 10:48
What is being done to achieve better T/W?
Through tech development projects with labs and industry
Higher TeT through SX blade
Lower weight through blisk
Boltless blade retaining arrangement
PM disk for HP turbine
From 10:49 to 13:21
Rare earth metal bank for PM disk and other engine components + 50,000 ton forge at HAL
From 13:22 to 15:52
5th gen engine development
T/W required 10
From 15:53 to 18:50
Collaboration for 5th gen engine
$250 million spent on Kaveri development
$2.5 billion for 5th gen development
From 18:51 to 20:53
Why delay in Kaveri?
Technical challenged faced during development
Getting slot for HAETF is an issue!
Delay in FTB!
Need for India to establish altitude testing and component testing facility
EBPVD TBC coating
Already proposing with GoI to establish material, manufacturing, altitude testing, FTB altogether
From 20:54 to 22:39
Whether countries are ready to provide technologies and test facilities?
GTRE Director very clearly says that DRDO is proposing to establish on our own all the testing facilities parallelly to the ongoing discussions with foreign OEMs
Engine has to be manufactured fully in India (presumably he is talking about 5th gen engine) + MRO
National mission
Manufacturing with Indian industry
Manufacturing technology to be transferred to industry by both the sides (presumably he means from GTRE + foreign OEM)
From 22:40 to 25:05
Timeframe for technology development?
10 yrs.
Talks about the technologies to be developed, testing to be done, certifications
1 to 2 yrs of flying in designated aircraft also taken into account in this timeframe
At 25:32 there is an edit in the video when something very important was being asked!
From 28:30 to 29:28
Technology development for 5th & 6th gen we have already started
6th gen T/W requirement is 14
SX blade to be replaced by CMC in 6th gen, already working with NAL
From 34:24 to 36:44
$2.5 billion required for 85 kN type of thing, higher for 120 kN (footnote put in by the channel shows $4.5 billion required for 120 kN engine but this figure wasn't uttered by the Director he only said higher than $2.5 billion)
From 36:45 to 37:25
Small turbo fan engine for ITCM (or future any other missile) we are totally Aatmanirbhar
when is the STFE mfg plant due for full scale production at BATL? There was tender for the land provision in December. Possibly prelim work. you can see here the general scope
www.tenderdetail.com
Defence Research And Development Organisation
Provision Of Stfe Manufacturing Facility In Drdo Land Near Batl Complex At Thiruvananthapuram; SUBHEAD-I :Dismanteling Works , Demolishing cement concrete manually/ by mechanical means including disposal of material within 50 metres lead as per direction of Engineer - in - charge. Nominal...
Everyone should learn to differentiate between different types of news sources and their reliability in defense matters.
- Primary source: Here, The Director of GRTE is a primary source because he is directly involved with the Kaveri project. Other examples include press releases from the Ministry of Defense or relevant companies, Requests for Information (RFI) from Services, Parliamentary committee reports, CAG reports, etc.
- Secondary source: A report by reliable defense correspondents like Shiv Aroor, Sandeep Unnithan, Shishir Gupta, Manu Pubby, etc. They report based on privileged information (i.e., leaks) or directly from a primary source. They usually have the backing of a media organization like ET, ANI, India Today, etc. In India, many news cycles are traditionally conducted in this way. People in government use this route to send their message. Its a win-win. They will have plausible deniability, and journalists get the "insider" information. Check how recent canadian affair and op-eds in HT by Shishir Gupta. I have heard that they also have a private WhatsApp group to receive information, such as press releases, a few hours before. You can watch this unfold on Twitter as they all post the same information within a matter of minutes.
- Semi-public data sources: This can include public tenders, and this approach is relatively new. It was pioneered by individuals from BRF in the past. It is tedious work to follow tender documents and assess their usefulness or value. However, the issue here is that their interpretation can be subjective. Many documents do not contain all the necessary information regarding their purpose. Another example is Open Source Intelligence (OSINT), such as satellite pictures. (Hat tip to @marich01 for sharing such information here.)
- ClickBait Media: This is the worst kind of information that you can rely on. They just want to make you waste time on their content or click on ads on the site so that they can make money.
Many YouTube channels and news sites have emerged in the last 5 years. ID-RW is the biggest winner in this. They copy and steal information, and sometimes add their own twist to make it more interesting. The key here is that some parts of the so-called article may be based on truth, but not the entire thing. Therefore, when something from them arises, do yourself a favor and quickly do a Google search to find other sources that report on the same topic. Information produced by them must have a proper source. If not just ignore.
Please understand that they are not journalists. They do not have access to "insider" information. Information in this field is sensitive. No one outside of vetted journalists is supposed to have that information; otherwise, it will be a breach of the "Official Secrets Act."
On topic, when there is information from a primary source, why are you relying on clickbait media? You are quoting a random YouTuber and the other is ID-RW. On post#1139, you can see the GTRE person categorically saying there is no plan as of now to mate Kaveri with LCA. There is no need to second guess it.
Very grateful for the elaboration. I will consider it as a blue book.
Please post it in New members thread in a way , those newly joining could read this guidence.
They ll be hooked to credible/ official sources..