Thats all you got to say? And yes, its true I know less about IAF, Specially did not believe that we would be having 2 compromised chiefs, one with kickbacks for VVIP chopper and other for Pilatus..
IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi
- Thread starter Aashish
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It seems that French have really done some fantastic job on Kaveri. this sudden love for LCA MK2 is an example of that.
I hope kaveri is true but the love for Tejas mk 2 might also be due to BJP wanting full MII which could not have been possible by getting any other aircraft in single engine and not because Kaveri has been successful. Besides, if French have used M88 core then safranised Kaveri us mostly imported.
By the way, is it realistic that Drdo can work on MK1A, MK2 and AMCA together at a time and fly them by 2025? I really dont think so..
By the way, is it realistic that Drdo can work on MK1A, MK2 and AMCA together at a time and fly them by 2025? I really dont think so..
Dude... You don't know anything about aircraft. And this has been repeated far too many times, so there's no point repeating it ever again.
I hope you are right. We need to see the Kaveri flying on the LCA first.
In February, sources within the Defence Ministry had indicated that India was no longer interested in a class of single-engine fighter other than the Tejas and had asked the Indian Air Force to revise its requirements to also include multi-engine fighters. There is, presently, no clarity on the shape of this acquisition and whether a deal for another multi-role fighter jet will at all progress.
Government Commits To New Variant Of Tejas Fighter, Future For Gripen And F-16 Unclear
Government Commits To New Variant Of Tejas Fighter, Future For Gripen And F-16 Unclear
Reasonable Timelines. Chapter 1
LCA Mk-1A first flight ~ 2022
LCA MK-1A production ~ 2025
LCA MK-2 first flight ~ 2025
LCA MK-2 production ~ 2030
AMCA first flight ≥2025, Induction - bhagwan jaane
The only platform that can secure Indian airspace is sadly the F-35. But before burning billions of dollars on another import 'Make in India', we need to start investing in 'Invent in India'. That starts by investing more than the paltry 1/3rd of the money we are paying the French to replace Indian parts with French ones; in our indigenous engine, across 2 decades. If MoD had paid GTRE $1 billion directly, we could have very likely got the engine going by now, along with a host of test infrastructure to further continue indigenous development. Same goes for the LCA program as a whole. Here we foolishly talked about getting MK-1A by 2020 when they haven't even drafted the SOP for MK-1A. Sadly the BJP government has failed in this regard. Not that there are any better governments to go to.
Peanuts for DRDO and billions for imports is how India remains an import driven country and will remain so for the foreseeable future.
LCA Mk-1A first flight ~ 2022
LCA MK-1A production ~ 2025
LCA MK-2 first flight ~ 2025
LCA MK-2 production ~ 2030
AMCA first flight ≥2025, Induction - bhagwan jaane
The only platform that can secure Indian airspace is sadly the F-35. But before burning billions of dollars on another import 'Make in India', we need to start investing in 'Invent in India'. That starts by investing more than the paltry 1/3rd of the money we are paying the French to replace Indian parts with French ones; in our indigenous engine, across 2 decades. If MoD had paid GTRE $1 billion directly, we could have very likely got the engine going by now, along with a host of test infrastructure to further continue indigenous development. Same goes for the LCA program as a whole. Here we foolishly talked about getting MK-1A by 2020 when they haven't even drafted the SOP for MK-1A. Sadly the BJP government has failed in this regard. Not that there are any better governments to go to.
Peanuts for DRDO and billions for imports is how India remains an import driven country and will remain so for the foreseeable future.
IAF has yet again fooled GOI for their love for Rafale. The guy who certified Mig-29K on deck has taken premature retirement from IN and will be a civilian on 01 April 2018. The test pilot school head will be a civilian on 31st july 2018. IN is not at all interested in LCA in any denomination.
Estimated IAF squadron strength by 2025:
- Su-30 MKI = 15
- Rafale = 2
- Tejas Mk-1 = 2
- Tejas Mk-1A = 4
- Mig-29 = 3
- Mirage-2000 = 3
- Jaguar = 3
Total = 32
Jaguar =6
60 Darin 2 will remain as they are while 60 Darin 1 will be upgraded to Darin 3.Total 120 jaguars will remain in service for 15-20 years.
Mk1a= fingers crossed.
Rafale=hopefully more than 2.
What exactly is a strike aircraft?
SOP for MKI from day one if I remember correctly was air superiority and Air interdiction. And to clarify further Jaguars were never just classified as just strike aircrafts but rather Deep penetration Strike aircraft, which essentially means Deep Air Support or Air interdiction. Given that MKI's role is very similar to F15SE, which again is a strike aircraft, I do not think it is necessary that Jag's have to be replaced by Rafales or AMCA, Jaguars Strike roles can carried out by any multirole or an precision bombing aircraft, which includes M2K, MKI, Rafales, EFT, F16IN, Gripen. In given conflicts zones of Syria a bulk of Air interdiction mission are being carried out by SU24's which a strike roles.
Multi role aircraft with decent payload range and good targeting system can be effectively used for "Strike" element of your Strike package. In multiple exercises, strike packages have been composed of purely M2k, MKI and Mig29, M2k Mig21's and MKI, and Jaguars, M2k and MKI, with MKI and Mig29's taking on Air Sup formations in bulk of the exercises.
Sure we do, but IAF has bungled up the acquisition process. Which keeps creeping up the question of stop gaps where in my opinion MKI has the best bang for the buck. Or else IAF should shut its trap about falling sqdn strength. Change the sanctioned strength to 30 sqdns and keep the discussion out.
MKI can be used for strike roles, that doesn't mean it's been designed for strike roles.
MKI isn't a panacea for all our problems. I will again have to take you back to how maintenance intensive, time consuming and expensive the MKI really is. The fact is the IAF doesn't need more than 200 MKI. But we have 270 only because we haven't properly replaced our older jets with other cheaper and easier to operate alternatives.
Jaguar is one such aircraft which cannot be replaced by the MKI. The F-15E cannot replace the Jaguar either. You need an aircraft that is much more easier to operate than the other two, that's why Rafale and AMCA.
And I mentioned Rafale and AMCA because you replace your old aircraft with new aircraft, not another old aircraft. Rafale and AMCA will be our only real future options. And the IAF has publicly said they want to replace their Jaguars with AMCA.
Mig-21/Mig-23 > MKI and LCA
Mig-23/Mig-27 > Rafale
Mig-29/M2000 > FGFA
Jaguar > AMCA
This is the official replacement list for the IAF.
All aircraft have their own part to play in such exercises. MKI and Mig-29 almost always handle fighter sweep and top cover. Jaguars and Mig-27s are always strike. Mig-21 always plays escort. M2K can switch between recce, strike and escort as and when necessary.
But once you bring in Rafales, none of the above becomes necessary. The Rafales will take over fighter sweep, top cover, escort, recce and strike all at once. Even the strike equipped Rafales can join the fight after they have dropped their loads. AMCA is basically a more modern Rafale. So these are the two jets actually qualified to replace the Jaguar.
The 20m2 RCS MKI is not fit for strike missions anymore. Compared to the latest fighters coming out now, it's obsolete in the air to air domain also. We have a short window of about 5-10 years where the MKI will continue to be useful as a frontline aircraft where it will still be useful against PAF. Post-2025, the MKI is history. The upgraded version will be good for another 10 years after it's operational, but it will still not be a commander's first choice against more capable aircraft like the J-20 or SAMs like the S400. Hence a very bad choice if we are to replace the Jaguars with MKIs. We will need aircraft like Rafale, AMCA and FGFA. After a point, the MKI will only be good as a missile truck supporting better aircraft or as a bomb truck if the environment is permissible. The F-15 in the USAF has already been reduced to this status now.
So please stop pushing the MKI down the IAF's throats. The MKI is based on 40-year-old technologies and even they know it is reaching its expiry date. Else they would have followed your advice and bought a lot more.
The IAF has not bungled up the acquisition process. We simply don't have the money. What they need has not changed at all.
And as already explained, the MKI is soon going to have one foot in its grave.
All major deals with Russia can be considered as dead as long as Modi is in power. This includes Super Sukhoi, FGFA and s-400 deals. RAFALE MII deal would only signed after 2019 general elections.
Neither of these would happen as long as Modi is in power i.e. at least until 2019 general elections.
SE MII requirements have not been transfered to LCA.
Everyone has their horse in the game and each of them are playing shadow boxing here.
Modi - Fighter deal with the US
IAF - RAFALEs
Congress - FGFAs
HAL - LCAs
Every time there is pressure on IAF from PMO on the US fighter deal, IAF develops love for LCA as they are worried that an F-16 deal prior to RAFALE deal would eat up into RAFALE numbers. IAF knows that LCA would take time to mature and cannot compete with RAFALEs
Hence PMO is now trying to push SE & TE deals as one ( as MMRCA 2.0) as a pressure tactic to force IAF accept the SE engine deal as is.
Going for both F-16 & Ralafes means end of the road for FGFA. Hence, Congress has started mudslinging the RAFALE deal to prevent any additional Rafales.
So IAF acquired 300 odd aircrafts with one foot in the grave? hmm interesting.
HAL fully backs the FGFA.
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