People here are underestimating the Chinese. In 2030 they would be a force to recon with amd woupd be fighting USA for the top spot. The sooner people realoze this the better
IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi
- Thread starter Aashish
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Against what target?
Against what target?
We have more MKIs than the US has F-15Cs. And the US has half the world to defend. We have too many MKIs.
It's the same for all aircraft. Upgrades don't last long because the base technology itself will have become 30-40 years old. No matter how much the F-16 is upgraded, the USAF will continue calling it a "legacy" aircraft.
I was referring to the next 5 years only, when the MKI will become wholly obsolete. After that, we will need PAK FA or FGFA.
Yeah ; J 20 can LAND on WATER
No, but they will make a carrier variant, I'm sure.
No, but they will make a carrier variant, I'm sure.
Did you go to China recently ; and Are you Now having a Chinese Girl friend
Jaguars role is reaching a location and delivering toufa. MKI's role besides enuring its own survival and the survival of its buddy Jaguar is to ensure the survival of Indian air forces ability to guard its own borders, a job it is no longer equipped to do in the face of hundreds of AESA equipped Chinese flankers. There is no confusion here. That is why we want FGFA and Super upgrades.
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Chinese industrial capability already exceeds anything the Americans have ever conjured including the massive effort in World War 2. China could double that number if it so chose.
How about refraining from backpedaling. Target was always Indian's threat environment. Where your claim since the last four pages have been Jags good for 20years, and MKI's toast beyond 2025.
I do not disagree. We do have a lot of MKI's, but given that IAF does not have the money to buy shiny rafales, F35's or EFT, and will do everything in its power to scuttle homegrown projects (evident with Pc7to extrapolate to LCA). What other viable options remain?
Also lets not just cherry pick F15C's, let not forget another 219F15E's.
Off course> because it has two new generations of aircraft's already commissioned.
I trust the IAF for it's Massive institutional inaction. We can have this discussion in coming years to see how obsolete the MKI becomes.
Yup. The usual hubris.
J-20? Haat! Chini maal. Sabko pata hai quality Chini maal ki (they write using their Chini built computer).
Why do you want to generalize?
All aircraft are mission specific. Jaguar cannot be used for SEAD/DEAD, but it can perform strike. So it depends on the target. The Jaguar's job is to deliver a payload in a permissible environment, even if it's localized and temporary. So it doesn't matter even if it's 2060, the Jaguar will continue to remain relevant to the end of its time. It's the AS's job to create a permissible environment, which the MKI most definitely can no longer do.
When your new home is missing furniture, you don't go out and buy a new home. No matter how expensive the furniture is, we have no choice but to buy it.
The same with Rafale. Rafale remains a viable option.
Anyway, the LCA numbers may climb to 324 jets.
The F-15E cannot create a permissible environment, it's only a strike aircraft.
Naturally, we need to be in that position as well.
The IAF isn't to blame for it. Do you recall the IAF actually expected the FGFA's IOC to be in 2019? They have even argued for a 6-year induction timescale for the FGFA.
Against which target? Against the J-20, the MKI is already obsolete. So even in the Indian scenario, it is obsolete.
I am not referring to injection molding and assembling semiconductors or smelting pig iron. The emphasis is on ground up system level product development, where China is no where close to US. And When it does catch up I would be the first one to recognize it. It will one day, but its not now and from the indicators that we see from innovation that comes from china in the sphere defense related developments it doesn't seem that in the next 5 years china will be producing 75 fifth gen fighters in a year (also the fact that russia may not give em 150 Al31 in a calendar year which might throw a wrench in the scenario). But yes I do believe that China cannot build 75 J20's ina calendar year and it's not about intentionally trying to malign chinese capability but my opinion of the state of defense innovation.
All these last few pages ; If they are True ; then we need to Shoot the IAF personnel for Treason ( SARCASM )
When we faced a crisis from F 16 in 1982
we hurriedly inducted Mirage 2000 and Mig 29
though they were not fully geared up for the challenge
Also in the Mid Nineties IAF pressed upon the Govt to buy Su 30
to stay ahead of its Rivals technologies
And Today when we have Twenty times more resources than in the Eighties
IAF is taking for ever to conclude Deals and is delaying the acquisiton of the Fifth gen plane
Does nt all this look scandalous ; preposterous and TREASONOUS
So it also means that
IAF has no concern for the life of its Pilots or the country's security
The USAF is curtailing to 48 jets a year max rate, when they initially wanted 60 / year during full production. I'm thinking they want their PCA jet (NGAD) sooner, and would favor that over the F-35. No wonder the Marines want to accelerate their purchases before the line goes away.
The US want to make 200+ F-35s a year. And this number will be reached. The PCA is not competing with the F-35.
That is only temporary to reduce the number of non-FOC early block versions that later need upgrades. It will ultimately get the same number as was planned.
What China did to its economy was not expected. If they want 75/year, they'll surely do it. They'll make their labourers work 24/7 if they have to they dont care
Till say deals with the Americans for C-130 , most deals were with PSUs
Also the corruption or kickbacks are not paid in india but in foreign countries thats why there was the Swiss bank account
Bofors, where were the kickbacks paid? In India??
Even if the deals are with private companies there would be kickbacks paid in foreign countries
Also the corruption or kickbacks are not paid in india but in foreign countries thats why there was the Swiss bank account
Bofors, where were the kickbacks paid? In India??
Even if the deals are with private companies there would be kickbacks paid in foreign countries
299 built worldwide and 286 at Fort Worth in 1987. Peak production achieved in 1981 @33 in one month.
F-16 Fleet Reports - F-16 aircraft production lines
I do not expect any apology.
Edited: bcz I can
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