Also for something else, but shhh (not india related or.. Later... Lets say huge efforts on MTBI so as not to have to open cans and maintain them exceedingly stealthy)
IAF Chronicles - A side view of whats going on behind the closed doors in New Delhi
- Thread starter Aashish
- Start date
- Status
Do you have any input regarding the final thrust figures for upgraded Kaveri? I have heard a figure as high as 75KN dry and 120KN wet. If true, this kills all efforst by RR to enter Indian Jet engine market with their EJ-270.
299 built worldwide and 286 at Fort Worth in 1987. Peak production achieved in 1981 @33 in one month.
F-16 Fleet Reports - F-16 aircraft production lines
I do not expect any apology.
Edited: bcz I can
how about some context? comback when 75 units are inducted in a year.
Why would China want to produce 75 J-20 per year in the first place? How many do you think the PLAAF will want in total?
A nice analysis (and summary) of the Indian TImes in Fighter contest : link below.
The Curious Case of India's Fighter Jet Contests - The Wire
The Curious Case of India's Fighter Jet Contests - The Wire
75 may be too much but 50 is very much possible also they are trying to compete against uncle Sam who plans to have close to 2k 5th gen aircraft. I guess they would need a lot of 5th gen fighters.
China do not intend to build a whole bunch of J-20afaik. They want to use them as "tip of the spear" so as to open corridors for other planes.
China doesn't aim to project power globally and so does not need to match or exceed the USA's fighter count to oppose them regionally. For example, China isn't distracted by foreverwars like the USA are. Furthermore, Chinese doctrine is different from American doctrine, so the fleet mix is different too. The J-20 was designed to serve a role that corresponds to China's needs, according to their geographical and strategical situation as well as their combat doctrine.
This is a different role from that of the F-35, which corresponds instead to the USA's situation and doctrine. In other words, both aircraft cannot be directly compared because they serve different purposes in different ways, so you shouldn't assume China will want as many J-20 as the USA want F-35.
Very great and recent sumary of the franco-india strategy :
This link above is a "must read".
Indian Strategic Studies: Deepening the India-France Maritime Partnership
Here're some extracts :
"Since Macron’s election in 2017, a series of high-level discussions between New Delhi and Paris have focused on the prospects of a stronger maritime security partnership. Whatever the immediate motivation, the ramifications could be far reaching. Bolstering their alliance is bound to move India away from the legacy of nonalignment and military isolationism, pushing it progressively toward coalition building with other powers."
"The high-level dialogue between New Delhi and Paris is currently focused on these principal elements: exchanging more maritime intelligence; establishing agreements to expand their naval reach; sharing military facilities; conducting joint naval operations; and deepening trilateral and multilateral cooperation with like-minded countries. Of course, these will all require a higher level of mutual political trust and a willingness to shed exclusivist claims for regional primacy."
"This deepening strategic partnership, however, has lacked a regional dimension. Securing cooperation in the Western Indian Ocean now promises to fill that gap. It also lends an important depth to India’s strategy in the Indian Ocean. Since the end of the Cold War, India has sought to develop multiple maritime security partnerships in the east with members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), Australia, Japan, and the United States. With its long-standing presence in the Western Indian Ocean, France could become a critical partner for India in securing its western maritime flank. Once their partnership is consolidated in the Western Indian Ocean, it could, over time, be extended to the Eastern Indian Ocean and the Pacific."
"The election of Macron brought fresh energy to the maritime engagement between the two countries. Modi’s visit to Paris to meet Macron in the summer of 2017 was followed by an intensive phase of high-level engagement. This comprised the visits of Indian air and naval chiefs to Paris and the visits of the French defense minister, national security adviser, and foreign minister to New Delhi in the second half of 2017. Maritime security is front and center in this high-level dialogue, which is to be capped by Macron’s visit to India in March 2018. As a result, maritime cooperation between India and France is likely to advance along multiple axes. Some of the following ideas are already being considered and others could be taken up in the future."
"Some discussion on this is already taking place; after the countries’ two defense ministers met in New Delhi in October 2017, the two sides agreed on “the need for greater maritime domain awareness” and decided to “further expand information sharing arrangements.”"
"Extending mutual logistical support: Beyond information and intelligence sharing, India and France could explore the prospects for facilitating each other’s naval operations in the Indian Ocean. Agreements that enable access to each other’s military facilities would allow both navies to extend their reach and improve the efficiency of their operations. Under such agreements, navies can secure fuel and other replenishments, as well as gain access to repair facilities, in the territory of the partner nation."
"The common Franco-Indian effort could cover training, regional capacity building, and the conduct of joint military operations for humanitarian assistance, disaster relief, and search and rescue."
"Launching trilateral cooperation: India and France have an opportunity to extend their partnership to other countries working toward similar goals. Potential partners for such trilateral cooperation include Australia, Japan, the United Arab Emirates, and the United States. France already has such mechanisms for regional maritime cooperation in the Pacific with Australia, Japan, and New Zealand."
"he well-known complexity of civil-military relations in India, where the dominance of the civilian bureaucracy is total, has been a major obstacle to the reform and rejuvenation of India’s defense engagement. This has been visible in India’s inconsistent approach to defense and security cooperation generally and with Western powers in particular. As noted by the French strategic analyst Lee Cordner, the “lack of engagement and alignment between India’s defence civil bureaucracy and senior military leadership casts serious doubts upon the coherency of India’s military and national security establishment and the quality of advice provided to India’s political leadership.”"
C. RAJA MOHAN, DARSHANA BARUAH
Deepening the India-France Maritime Partnership
6 March 2018
This link above is a "must read".
Indian Strategic Studies: Deepening the India-France Maritime Partnership
Here're some extracts :
"Since Macron’s election in 2017, a series of high-level discussions between New Delhi and Paris have focused on the prospects of a stronger maritime security partnership. Whatever the immediate motivation, the ramifications could be far reaching. Bolstering their alliance is bound to move India away from the legacy of nonalignment and military isolationism, pushing it progressively toward coalition building with other powers."
"The high-level dialogue between New Delhi and Paris is currently focused on these principal elements: exchanging more maritime intelligence; establishing agreements to expand their naval reach; sharing military facilities; conducting joint naval operations; and deepening trilateral and multilateral cooperation with like-minded countries. Of course, these will all require a higher level of mutual political trust and a willingness to shed exclusivist claims for regional primacy."
"This deepening strategic partnership, however, has lacked a regional dimension. Securing cooperation in the Western Indian Ocean now promises to fill that gap. It also lends an important depth to India’s strategy in the Indian Ocean. Since the end of the Cold War, India has sought to develop multiple maritime security partnerships in the east with members of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), Australia, Japan, and the United States. With its long-standing presence in the Western Indian Ocean, France could become a critical partner for India in securing its western maritime flank. Once their partnership is consolidated in the Western Indian Ocean, it could, over time, be extended to the Eastern Indian Ocean and the Pacific."
"The election of Macron brought fresh energy to the maritime engagement between the two countries. Modi’s visit to Paris to meet Macron in the summer of 2017 was followed by an intensive phase of high-level engagement. This comprised the visits of Indian air and naval chiefs to Paris and the visits of the French defense minister, national security adviser, and foreign minister to New Delhi in the second half of 2017. Maritime security is front and center in this high-level dialogue, which is to be capped by Macron’s visit to India in March 2018. As a result, maritime cooperation between India and France is likely to advance along multiple axes. Some of the following ideas are already being considered and others could be taken up in the future."
"Some discussion on this is already taking place; after the countries’ two defense ministers met in New Delhi in October 2017, the two sides agreed on “the need for greater maritime domain awareness” and decided to “further expand information sharing arrangements.”"
"Extending mutual logistical support: Beyond information and intelligence sharing, India and France could explore the prospects for facilitating each other’s naval operations in the Indian Ocean. Agreements that enable access to each other’s military facilities would allow both navies to extend their reach and improve the efficiency of their operations. Under such agreements, navies can secure fuel and other replenishments, as well as gain access to repair facilities, in the territory of the partner nation."
"The common Franco-Indian effort could cover training, regional capacity building, and the conduct of joint military operations for humanitarian assistance, disaster relief, and search and rescue."
"Launching trilateral cooperation: India and France have an opportunity to extend their partnership to other countries working toward similar goals. Potential partners for such trilateral cooperation include Australia, Japan, the United Arab Emirates, and the United States. France already has such mechanisms for regional maritime cooperation in the Pacific with Australia, Japan, and New Zealand."
"he well-known complexity of civil-military relations in India, where the dominance of the civilian bureaucracy is total, has been a major obstacle to the reform and rejuvenation of India’s defense engagement. This has been visible in India’s inconsistent approach to defense and security cooperation generally and with Western powers in particular. As noted by the French strategic analyst Lee Cordner, the “lack of engagement and alignment between India’s defence civil bureaucracy and senior military leadership casts serious doubts upon the coherency of India’s military and national security establishment and the quality of advice provided to India’s political leadership.”"
C. RAJA MOHAN, DARSHANA BARUAH
Deepening the India-France Maritime Partnership
6 March 2018
Only in June the fate of FGFA will be clear before that it will be tough to speculate. No doubt about tejas, I always say, bring tejas to at least 4+ generation. And yes it can be brought.
So you want to deny history? All old stuff gets replaced.
Forced out of compulsion.
No, they don't. Tyagi is in the soup for messing around with the RFP, not negotiations.
FRP is yet to start. Right now the F-35 is only in LRIP.
Lockheed's F-35 Said To Be In Full Rate Production By No. 2 Pentagon Official | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD
Just achieving FRP is 160 jets per year.
FGFA is still very safe. Of course, it is subject to Russia agreeing to full ToT and joint IPR. Hopefully, Madam NS finds us some money.
I wish but it's future appeared to be bleak as of now.
@vstol Jockey sir, what your thoughts and Do you have any idea what is happening behind the closed curtains as far as FGFA is concerned and DO you think it is comparable to US 5th gen fighter aircrafts and do you think F-35 could be an alternative to it?
That combat radius is for British conditions. Even in Sea Harriers we could do multiple vertical take off and landings in Sea Harrier in UK but in India, the fuel load was restricted to 2200 litres for vertical take off and zero load for vertical landing. That too when BA modified them with a 50 gallon water tank to enhance the thrust. We had to do vertical landing on shore with water injection ON.
No one in India will ever clear F-35 with the baggage it comes. Forget about it. IAF's change of heart is based on additional Rafales and long back on another forum I had stated that IAF will not agree to anyother fighter till they get atleast 90 Rafale. Now forget about FGFA, even the SU-57 with minor changes is very much NEEDED by IAF to close the gap with China. ROFL.
- Status