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95% of world population has no idea about any conventions or rules, they take things as they are shown to them, Unless until India openly declares that they have got Masood Azhar with evidence, this black spot on us that Pakistanis didn't care of any rules, came inside India in broad day light and later one IAF pilot became the POW, no matter he downed the F16, 80% world population DOES NOT KNOW WHAT F16 is, , the term POW is itself a big sham on our face the way they paraded him.

Try to understand that Pakistanis and every one will comment us for the next 50 years on this. Mark it!! India has to take very decisive action and erase this black spot with something maverick!!

Dont worry,another terror strike will happen soon.Precedent has been set.We will get another chance quite soon.Right now PAF knows behind the propaganda it cant challenge us .If their generals do another terror strike,we will break them starting with their navy.Right now we are tormenting them economically.Millions of dollars per day on CAPS and losses due to closed airspace,investment fleeing,balochis harassing them.This is true death by thousand cuts.The americans and the world agencies taht actually monitor know the real situation,what internet trolls babble on holds little real relevance.
 
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As our Mig21 bison had HMDS/R-73 combo for WVR fights, can the Pakistanis retrieve them from the wreckage and supply it to China? I mean it's a Israeli HMDS so it might be helpful for them?
 
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Didn t intend to demean his success,

F16 was running away because of collective force in indian side , his success comes from being part of pack ..

Do we need to learn more of the engagement ?

Or are we are sure of manoeuvre s .. no need to dissect further ?

Looking at pilots chat , seems he did some extra ordinary engagement.

A Mig-21 killing an F-16 in a dog fight is a very big deal. Normally he shouldn't have a chance in hell.
 
I don't understand obsession with POK.I understand we should diplomatically keep this a non negotiable thing,but in realistic strategic terms lets face it - POK populace is mostly hostile to us.We have enough trouble with kashmir valley as is(unlike jammu and ladakh).We don't need more seditious population -more economic and military burden.Let them rot with failed state pakistan(though diplomatically don't budge).Meanwhile make jammu and ladakh into union territories and clean up valley.Stop giving back militants bodies,these mass funerals give more publicity and more radicalization.Reactivate ikhwan.

The population there will require a lot of schooling.

A lot of them will leave for Pakistan and Afghanistan anyway, rather than becoming Indians themselves.
 
A Mig-21 killing an F-16 in a dog fight is a very big deal. Normally he shouldn't have a chance in hell.

All the success that MiG 21 had in Cope India was Only in WVR

That is when USAF wrote about its
Small Size and Jack Rabbit Acceleration
Along with HMS + R 73

You Google MiG 21 Jack Rabbit Acceleration and that article still pops up
 
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Pakistanis will get more Punishment

Is that what you are implying
Yes! Apparently their whole nuclear BLUFF is exposed. They don't have numbers and what they have are obsolete Chinese junk with 6KT yield not enough to deter us. This is also confirmed by their rants of using tactical Nukes on our IBG if it enters Pakistan. Also all their Nukes are being tracked by India, even if they touch India will go for preemptive strikes. They are checkmated by Doval this time around...😁😁😂
 
Problem with your ideas -
1.Pakistan will not reconcile with loss of POK.Loss of a major city in POK will inevitably lead to nuclear escalation.Also due to mountain terrain taking this land will be hugely costly.All this for a seditious radicalized jihadi population?No thanks.

Larger goals involved. Neither we nor the western powers and Russia desires Chinese access to the Persian Gulf thru Pakistan.
Our goal should be a war of attrition as is being waged against the state of Pakistan. Use their policy of bleeding them dry with a 1000 cuts on them. This is an opportune moment. Their economy is down. It's time we stretch their already stretched armed forces to the maximum. Directly engage with the malcontents within their borders , arm & finance them.

The end game should involve a concert of democracies acting together to defang them before we move in for the kill and reconquer PoJ&K. I know I read like randomradio now but stranger things have happened. And truth is always stranger than fiction. That should be our end game. No matter what.

2.You can't cleanse even our kashmir valley even now.And you are talking about that.We are a democracy,not china.There are serious limits on what we can do,and also opposition won't let you.Lets stick our ambitions to valley sanitization.
We never intended to cleanse the valley which is why it continues to retain its original character and what's more its certainly punched above its weight and still does.

But that needs to change and we will not be able to change it with Pakistan around or more precisely with PA around. Tackling the PA is an essential part of this complex matrix. Apart from tightening the leash on the valley and our grip on them for the time being.


3.We can't target chinese assets/investments directly.Too much risk for too little gain.

POK is a good diplomatic slogan.Keep it that way.In real terms its a massive burden,a sink for manpower and treasure for a non -productive area full of radicalized jihadi elements.Let them rot with pakistan.


If we don't do it in the near future, the Chinese will be there in full force with us like a betel nut wedged between two levers being crushed. We don't have an option in this regard.

I repeat, once we reconquer PoJ&K, the first point on our agenda should be to drive the Mirpuris, the Sudans and the rest of them out of the so called AJK. We can see what to do with the populace of the so called NA later.
 
Yes! Apparently their whole nuclear BLUFF is exposed. They don't have numbers and what they have are obsolete Chinese junk with 6KT yield not enough to deter us. This is also confirmed by their rants of using tactical Nukes on our IBG if it enters Pakistan. Also all their Nukes are being tracked by India, even if they touch India will go for preemptive strikes. They are checkmated by Doval this time around...😁😁😂

You are promising us the Moon

We only want Another Chocolate cake
( ie another Balakot ) :love:
 
Dont worry,another terror strike will happen soon.Precedent has been set.We will get another chance quite soon.Right now PAF knows behind the propaganda it cant challenge us .If their generals do another terror strike,we will break them starting with their navy.Right now we are tormenting them economically.Millions of dollars per day on CAPS and losses due to closed airspace,investment fleeing,balochis harassing them.This is true death by thousand cuts.The americans and the world agencies taht actually monitor know the real situation,what internet trolls babble on holds little real relevance.

They don't need money to fight with India let me make this clear to every one here. They are fanatics and they are getting lots of fund sufficient to wage war due to Kashmir cause from OIC. It's the resolution of OIC to fund the Kashmir cause. Why don't you people and so called defence enthusiast understand this simple thing?

I just want to know why IAF did not retaliate the same day! Mistakes likes this are not afforded.

WE are contradicting ourselves. Why would any country declare Pakistan as terrorist state when we say, India fights terrorism and no the army of Pak.
Arrey Bhai , the PAK army is the terrorist!!

5 security personal martyred in encounter
 
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Guys remember anti nationals or political clowns won't be a problem when war starts or even propaganda. Right now house cleaning is being done and other preparations.

Why they won't be any problem?
Answer is article 352, when war is announced government is free to declare emergency on grounds of external attack, it won't be same as emergency of Indira Gandhi politically but have same powers.

During emergency even your fundamental rights are suspended expect in Article 20 and 21, Government controls everything, can arrest people, detain them, ask press to report facts and not Pakistani propaganda and pakistani point of view. The bad experience of treasonous press in 1999 conflict was because no emergency was imposed and press was left to do what they want but in this age of information war it's impossible to go to war without emergency.

Don't worry too much about Pakistani propaganda or what few journalists are saying both Indian or foreign. Our goverment and forces are mature enough and are making no statement without ascertaining complete facts, that's why ISPR is becoming butt of joke due to lies and propaganda. As more dust settles and Pakistan loses more credibility even international press will start reporting facts and "claims". If we are in for a war we are doing everything right so far, however our enemy is more focused on Twitter and misinformation which is good for us, let them lose more credibility then even their correct claims be doubtful.
 
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They don't need money to fight with India let me make this clear to every one here. They are fanatics and they are getting lots of fund sufficient to wage war due to Kashmir cause from OIC. It's the resolution of OIC to fund the Kashmir cause. Why don't you people and so called defence enthusiast understand this simple thing?

I just want to know why IAF did not retaliate the same day! Mistakes likes this are not afforded.

WE are contradicting ourselves. Why would any country declare Pakistan as terrorist state when we say, India fights terrorism and no the army of Pak.
Arrey Bhai , the PAK army is the terrorist!!


We didn't retaliate because they had pilot and in a masterstroke released him unconditionally.That meant we couldnt launch all out attack after that.In world's eyes we would have been aggressors.But as i said,the pak generals wont let go of their jihadi habits.They will try again,and this time we will slap them hard.They are already shaken internally.Money may not be needed for jihadi infantry cannon fodder,but its needed for posh lifestyle of generals and their children,post retirment benfits,and for the expensive machines of their airforce and navy.If they lose their airforce IAF would bomb POK targets with impunity.
 
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All the success that MiG 21 had in Cope India was Only in WVR

That is when USAF wrote about its
Small Size and Jack Rabbit Acceleration
Along with HMS + R 73

You Google MiG 21 Jack Rabbit Acceleration and that article still pops up

HMDS + R-73 is a huge advantage over the PAF F-16s, but definitely not in terms of performance. The F-16 is far superior in performance.
 
Guys remember anti nationals or political clowns won't be a problem when war starts or even propaganda. Right now house cleaning is being done and other preparations.

Why they won't be any problem?
Answer is article 352, when war is announced government is free to declare emergency on grounds of external attack, it won't be same as emergency of Indira Gandhi politically but have same powers.

During emergency even your fundamental rights are suspended expect in Article 20 and 21, Government controls everything, can arrest people, detain them, ask press to report facts and not Pakistani propaganda and pakistani point of view. The bad experience of treasonous press in 1999 conflict was because no emergency was imposed and press was left to do what they want but in this age of information war it's impossible to go to war without emergency.

Don't worry too much about Pakistani propaganda or what few journalists are saying both Indian or foreign. Our goverment and forces are mature enough and are making no statement without ascertaining complete facts, that's why ISPR is becoming butt of joke due to lies and propaganda. As more dust settles and Pakistan loses more credibility even international press will start reporting facts and "claims". If we are in for a war we are doing everything right so far, however our enemy is more focused on Twitter and misinformation which is good for us, let them lose more credibility then even their correct claims be doubtful.

Declaring Emergency is dangerous
Because These RSS Lynch mobs will
Repeat 2002 and police will not be able to
Control

And after wards when emergency is lifted
And A Supreme court enquiry begins
BJP will be screwed
 
Guys remember anti nationals or political clowns won't be a problem when war starts or even propaganda. Right now house cleaning is being done and other preparations.

Why they won't be any problem?
Answer is article 352, when war is announced government is free to declare emergency on grounds of external attack, it won't be same as emergency of Indira Gandhi politically but have same powers.

During emergency even your fundamental rights are suspended expect in Article 20 and 21, Government controls everything, can arrest people, detain them, ask press to report facts and not Pakistani propaganda and pakistani point of view. The bad experience of treasonous press in 1999 conflict was because no emergency was imposed and press was left to do what they want but in this age of information war it's impossible to go to war without emergency.

Don't worry too much about Pakistani propaganda or what few journalists are saying both Indian or foreign. Our goverment and forces are mature enough and are making no statement without ascertaining complete facts, that's why ISPR is becoming butt of joke due to lies and propaganda. As more dust settles and Pakistan loses more credibility even international press will start reporting facts and "claims". If we are in for a war we are doing everything right so far, however our enemy is more focused on Twitter and misinformation which is good for us, let them lose more credibility then even their correct claims be doubtful.

The Best thing is to pick up trouble makers
Whether Goondas or Journalist under NSA
For a month

NSA means National Security Act
 
All the success that MiG 21 had in Cope India was Only in WVR

That is when USAF wrote about its
Small Size and Jack Rabbit Acceleration
Along with HMS + R 73

You Google MiG 21 Jack Rabbit Acceleration and that article still pops up
One of the main reasons why Mig-21s were closest to the attacking PAF aircraft and why six of them were scrambled was the reason that it is asingle engine aircraft and can start off and take off in less time than any single engined aircraft. You never start both engines together. You have to start them one by one. AND that takes double the time. Plus most aircraft have engine life issues if full thrust is opened in less than 2mins of start up of the engine.
 
Problem with your ideas -
1.Pakistan will not reconcile with loss of POK.Loss of a major city in POK will inevitably lead to nuclear escalation.Also due to mountain terrain taking this land will be hugely costly.All this for a seditious radicalized jihadi population?No thanks.
2.You can't cleanse even our kashmir valley even now.And you are talking about that.We are a democracy,not china.There are serious limits on what we can do,and also opposition won't let you.Lets stick our ambitions to valley sanitization.
3.We can't target chinese assets/investments directly.Too much risk for too little gain.

POK is a good diplomatic slogan.Keep it that way.In real terms its a massive burden,a sink for manpower and treasure for a non -productive area full of radicalized jihadi elements.Let them rot with pakistan.
Agree on most points. But there needs to be serious consideration if a middle groond is possible. The wakhan corridor is a great prize.

Consider this third option. Taking only sparsely populated areas to get a path to the wakhan corridor. The left side of PoJ&K is highly poulated compared to the 3 districts of Ghanche, Gilgit and Baltistan. Even in these 3 districts we could avoid population centers majorly and get a clear route to Wakhan corridor.
Doesn't this give best of all worlds?

images.jpg
 
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