You mean we have to be at war to activate AD's
That's a good one. Always knew you had a sense of humor. Never knew it was this cutting.
India - Pakistan Standoff 2019
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That's a good one. Always knew you had a sense of humor. Never knew it was this cutting.
The F-16s were not close enough for AAA defences to become active, considering the AAA guns were actually deployed there. As for SAMs, they were most likely not deployed there. PAF must have done their homework thoroughly when picking their target.
We have very few long range SAMs, induction of IAF's MRSAM started only in 2016. So you can expect what we have to be covering only a few strategic areas. Pretty much all our SAMs are short range. All our other long range SAMs are still pending delivery, like the IA's MRSAM and IAF's S-400. And any indigenous solution is still under development.
IAF was prepared. That's why PAF attack failed.
Or do you think PAF screwed up all on their own?
Exactly, in fact we should we have surprised pakistan by bringing their planes down. We not only let our guard down but also in the process took their bait. Of course in a large scale battle IAF has the upper hand, but in a age of skirmishes should have planned for these kind of scenario.
Why are you all so confused?
Activate ADs? There are different states of alertness that are meant to deal with different conditions. And when you are at war, you are at the highest alert condition. When you are at peace, a lot of your stuff is under lock and key or simply undermanned. This is practically known to everybody following the military.
Ever heard of DEFCON?
DEFCON - Wikipedia
Even individual units have their own alert conditions.
REDCON - Wikipedia
I can only guess, they were not in position. The one that was in close vicinity shot down our own helicopter, even when action was happening far away.
More money is spent in being war ready having cutting edge state of the art tech in 2030 or 2035 than being partially ready for today or emergency. One raid and they were shooting down own planes, ducking from missiles fired out of range, being 'brave' enough to leave Abhinandan alone on hot pursuit and cowering down to avoid further humiliation in avenging raid of 27th.
I think Paf never intended to hit our HQ like most members here claim. PAK just wanted a moral victory in the eyes of their avaam. Killing Indian soldiers in revenge of an airstrike on terrorists which they claim don't exist is a pretty big idea to defend around the world, especially when the world is accusing you of harboring terrorists. So the theory of Paf failing is just a self satisfactory statement by IAF.
Do you doubt it sir? Unless of course you are selling that H4 missed targets because of jamming.
Why do you think the IAF hasn't underestimated the PAF? Are you of the opinion that they were willing to accept the losses had the PGM's found their mark on our Brigade HQ or perhaps had the PAF succeeded in bombing an air base? I repeat my charge that apart from good avionics, presence of mind, daredevilry by Wing Co Abhinandan we were lucky that day not to have to face greater material harm and casualties.
The PAF in their over enthusiasm overplayed their hand and acquainted us with their tactics and also brought our lacunae in AD as also the tactics of the IAF to the surface. The IAF will no doubt derive the ruggt lessons. But on the 27th Feb, they were exposed. Your covering up here with your fancy flights of fancy is akin to putting lipstick on a pig.
They attacked our armed forces in response to a pre emptive strike on a terrorist training camp. A response was in order. Something a section of the membership here have been advocating since the night of 27th Feb, in case you haven't noticed.
And what do you mean we aren't targeting their armed forces when their proxies have been mauling our armed forces since the past 30 years and more if you were to take Punjab into account too. Yet when the opportunity presented itself, we resorted to bluster with Qatl ki raat and chickened out.
How do you propose we wrench their infrastructure out of the ground root stem branch et al without targeting their armed forces at some point given they are the font of all those non state actors. What is the damage that we've done them on the LoC? Please list the BOP's we've captured.Or are you suggesting we've occupied great stretches of land.
Please stop talking thru your hat & post contradicting statements.
We did fine. They took our bait. Haven't you been reading @Falcon's posts?
Yes, I agree with this 100%.
That's why I have always proposed we need a silver bullet force. Like 2-3 squadrons of upgraded MKIs with Irbis-E, 117S and RVV-SD back in 2015. 3 squadrons of upgraded PAK FAs between 2025 and 2030 etc. Hell, back in 2007, when the French President Sarkozy wanted the IAF to buy 40 Rafale F3, I wanted the IAF to grab it with both hands.
France reiterates offer of 40 Rafale fighters to India
I most definitely blame the IAF for not being proactive about these things.
I hope the IAF is waking up to this now.
That's BS. Nobody would activate equipment worth billions of dollars just to send some message. Such high tempo operations can easily result in self-goals (like we did with Mi-17). Also, they could not guarantee what India's response might be.
If it was literally just a "moral victory", then they do not have to use 2 dozen aircraft, all they needed was just one Mirage III firing off just one H-4 somewhere in the vicinity of an Indian HQ from well within their territory and be done with it.
To begin with thank you for acquainting Me with terms like DEFCON & REDCON. Admittedly, this is the first time I've come across them.
So, what exactly was the state of affairs after Balakote? Peace or war? Please elaborate. Or would you rather the GoI declared war for the IAF to be on maximum alert post Balakote. Please elucidate your views, O great one.
I have arrived at the same conclusion , rather grudgingly, after viewing the events from 26th Feb onwards thanks to retrospective vision. It's always 20/20.
But did they do any damage? Why didn't they do any damage?
Or are you one of those who believes they spent so much time, personnel and money just so they can "miss deliberately"?
Nothing was exposed. The Pakistanis came in, they lost, they left.
As I said, if we target their armed forces in their territory, they will gain sympathy. This is the classic case of supporting the underdog. And this in turn means financial support. It is India that should look weak and helpless and unable to do a thing about Pak sponsored terrorism so that the international community takes action. That's why we repeatedly called our strikes as "non-military strikes". Escalating matters after they are already down works in their favour.
As for losses at LoC, we have eliminated dozens to hundreds of soldiers, depending on where you get your news from. We have no interest in taking their BoPs, we would much rather they are unable to occupy their own BoPs instead while we sit safe in our BoPs.
You guys dont watch Cricket , we had a wonderful match
This discussion suddenly moved forward 4 pages , I thought War has started
This discussion suddenly moved forward 4 pages , I thought War has started
Sir let's be real, if 2 Su30 can Jam 12 H4, 5 AMRAAM from a distance of 70-80km they can jam a hell lot more from 30-40km as distance affects intensity and strength of signals inversely.
Did they moved forward and took the aim or stayed outside range of AMRAAM? That should give you the answer.
We never wanted to Target your hq.our statement was clear but members don't trust us.we wanted to send a message.we did feb27 because we were under pressure.
Going by your supreme logic, wasn't that an act of war? And yet again going by your supreme logic we shouldn't have escalated. You're not even talking of adequate and proportional response. You've straight away jumped the gun to bring in the term escalation. Yet according to you we shouldn't be targeting the Pakistan armed forces. For our job is to target the so called non state actors. As if they exist in a vaccum. In isolation as it were. Do you see the contradicting statements you've posted. You've tied yourself in knots.
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