India - Pakistan Standoff 2019

[randomradio]

Matlab swarg dekhne ke liye pehle marna zaroori hain.

Happened many times with Pakistan.

Their entire nuclear program was built using foreign money and technology. The same with their ballistic missile program.

A huge amount of equipment losses Pakistan suffered during 1965 and 71 wars were made up through foreign transfers.

Even if for some reason China cannot provide aid to Pakistan, the GCC will. The GCC is currently militarising Egypt. All those Rafale and Mig and T-90 sales to Egypt are being sponsored by the Saudis and Emiratis. However all the new boats and subs that the Chinese are "selling" to Pakistan are being funded by China itself. Anyway a large part of their modernisation happened through US aid over the last 2 decades. There's not a lot of Pakistani money involved in their modernisation. Their money is spent on nuclear weapons and proxy armies.

There is a reason why we need Pakistan on the FATF Blacklist. This is a far greater victory than any number of Balakots.

 

[Freezerdam]

Time starting from 21st June till 11th August is very bad for Pakistan and a war can easily break out.

Sir,can you explain in detail?

 

[jetray]

I can only guess, they were not in position. The one that was in close vicinity shot down our own helicopter, even when action was happening far away.

More money is spent in being war ready having cutting edge state of the art tech in 2030 or 2035 than being partially ready for today or emergency. One raid and they were shooting down own planes, ducking from missiles fired out of range, being 'brave' enough to leave Abhinandan alone on hot pursuit and cowering down to avoid further humiliation in avenging raid of 27th.

Seems we still have lot of kinks to iron out from planning perspective, hopefully we have learnt some thing out of this.

War will be fought with what we have not with what we want. Even by 2030/2035 technology will change, even enemy will change so will their capability & technology. We are shooting at a moving a goal post. If we look at US, one of the reasons why they are strong is bcos they keep fighting all the time which helps in keep improving their equipment & tactics. We should ensure improvement is a constant process not once in a while job which is done in response to an incident.

 

[jetray]

We did fine. They took our bait. Haven't you been reading @Falcon's posts?



Yes, I agree with this 100%.

That's why I have always proposed we need a silver bullet force. Like 2-3 squadrons of upgraded MKIs with Irbis-E, 117S and RVV-SD back in 2015. 3 squadrons of upgraded PAK FAs between 2025 and 2030 etc. Hell, back in 2007, when the French President Sarkozy wanted the IAF to buy 40 Rafale F3, I wanted the IAF to grab it with both hands.

France reiterates offer of 40 Rafale fighters to India

I most definitely blame the IAF for not being proactive about these things.

I hope the IAF is waking up to this now.

Lets see how we tackle the next incident until then these are just our own assumptions.

 

[Freezerdam]

You don't have matching skills because you don't have matching training. It's not very different from a cricket macth. You spend time training every day, make sure you watch your diet every day and always focussed on your daily training, you win. At the very least the numbers of hours your guys get on their planes and face offs with other air forces is way lesser than ours. I'm not even talking about equipment superiority here.

Please sir don't underestimate your opponent's.What they did in 27th feb,some IAF personal should be fired by now for their incompetency.It was a board sunny day light..You people r saying that they came just 3 km into india but forgot to mention 10 km no fly jone why???

 

[randomradio]

Lets see how we tackle the next incident until then these are just our own assumptions.

These are not "assumptions".

In combat, the primary goal is to achieve objectives. Did PAF achieve their objectives or not?

 

[randomradio]

Please sir don't underestimate your opponent's.What they did in 27th feb,some IAF personal should be fired by now for their incompetency.It was a board sunny day light..You people r saying that they came just 3 km into india but forgot to mention 10 km no fly jone why???

A jet moving at 900Kmph can cross 10Km in less than a minute. 3Km in just 12 seconds. The F-16s could infiltrate only 3Km across the LoC, 12 seconds of flight time, before they were forced to retreat. And in less than a minute after that, the Mig-21s were already on them. That's still not good enough?

What do you think the IAF should have done?

Anyway, who was the one being incompetent? Who do you think should be fired?

 

[Freezerdam]

Why your Sam fired missile toward a Target? What was it's Target? Was it a fighter jet who masked itself and save itself from direct kill or do you guys seriously fired a missile toward a helicopter? Helicopter crash and amraam wreckage seen by all.what else do you want from your enemy! Emotions not good for discussion.

You are just talking like a idiot now.

I am not claiming.i am trying to say that there were mistakes from your side as well.total chaos on our side on feb27.

Hey...That was not mistake,that was the golden opportunity just slipped out from our hand for some incompetent IAF personal.You people served us your Pakistani Flag in a plate on that day..But we failed to take it....

 

[Freezerdam]

A jet moving at 900Kmph can cross 10Km in less than a minute. 3Km in just 12 seconds. The F-16s could infiltrate only 3Km across the LoC, 12 seconds of flight time, before they were forced to retreat. And in less than a minute after that, the Mig-21s were already on them. That's still not good enough?

What do you think the IAF should have done?

Anyway, who was the one being incompetent? Who do you think should be fired?

For IAF personal-You know ,Pakistan have a plane and they notified you already.It was code Red 5 stage...But just we failed..They want to served us their Pakistani Flag...Their pride but we did not took it.

 

[jetray]

These are not "assumptions".
In combat, the primary goal is to achieve objectives. Did PAF achieve their objectives or not?

Did pakistan take our bait? well who knows, what if they had a bait for us and ended up revealing more about our capability.
As I said these are our assumptions not facts. Only the next incident will provide an answer on what we know.

 

[jetray]

So indian navy hunted Pakistani submarine for 21 days.21 days is a very long time.

During peace time navy tries to keep track to enemy assets in a non-intrusive manner, war time would be different situation altogether.

 

[randomradio]

For IAF personal-You know ,Pakistan have a plane and they notified you already.It was code Red 5 stage...But just we failed..They want to served us their Pakistani Flag...Their pride but we did not took it.

No clue what you're on about.

 

[randomradio]

Did pakistan take our bait? well who knows, what if they had a bait for us and ended up revealing more about our capability.
As I said these are our assumptions not facts.

What capabilities did we reveal? All we had during the engagement were 2 Mig-21s that are retiring soon.

Only the next incident will provide an answer on what we know.

What answer will we know?

 

[Freezerdam]

Bandar in Urdu means monkey.i have no idea what baba was talking about.you must be from indian defence forum, bringing complains here lol.kindly check my latest tweets.there is a new picture of paf Hasan there.he is alive.

In PDF,Oscer dude mentioned that no f16 was shot down but may be a mirage iii,as it was questioned by The Deterrent..In early days post balakote...So clearly assumed that paf lost an aircraft that day{pakistani opinion},but We know it was an F16,your pride

 

[Guynextdoor]

Please sir don't underestimate your opponent's.What they did in 27th feb,some IAF personal should be fired by now for their incompetency.It was a board sunny day light..You people r saying that they came just 3 km into india but forgot to mention 10 km no fly jone why???

Depends upon what guidance people were given on ground

 

[Freezerdam]

Depends upon what guidance people were given on ground

Entire air force of pakistan was airborne on that day,they were flying since morning,and our air force was watching the entire picture by different modes of electronic equipments,
IAF position:Multiple Caps in the Area by 2 No's su30 and 2 jags..Why??

At 9.20 am paf air force vectored their F16s in the air,we were observing..Why did not we send more fighter in the air that time.when they were assembling at 9.35 or 9.40am, now we realised that some sinister plan are going to be excute...Why so late?

 

[Freezerdam]

No. Those three F-16s were carrying LGBs for the weapons dump and they had to fire them at randon due to Mig-21s. First thing we do on being bounced is that we clean up the aircraft for combat. We jettison all bombs and drop tanks and retain only A2A weapons.

Why only 2 su 30 did caps in the area??Why not more??Did they hatching eggs in base??

 

[Sulla84]

Why only 2 su 30 did caps in the area??Why not more??Did they hatching eggs in base??

Forward AFBs do not have hardened shelters for Su-30s... Successive governments have been dragging their foot here... Mig-21s are based in forward AFBs without shelters maybe because iaf does not mind losing them

 

[Deathstar]

Why only 2 su 30 did caps in the area??Why not more??Did they hatching eggs in base??

I read in an article that there are no hardened shelters for Sus at FOBs , the proposal to build was passed post 27 ,thats why less Su30s

 

[Freezerdam]

I read in an article that there are no hardened shelters for Sus at FOBs , the proposal to build was passed post 27 ,thats why less Su30s

Do MIGs not suitable for CAPS??