Wakhan was part of J&K state and was ceeded to Russia in 1883 by the British during the great game. The real border was somewhat as shown below. It had a border with Russia of old. But when Durandline was created, this part was given to Russia.
India - Pakistan Standoff 2019
- Thread starter nair
- Start date
- Status
Precisely,sir. Found the demarcation report on Russian Empire and Emirate of Afghanistan, salvaged from the Wayback Machine. Anybody interested can have a glance. Wakhan Corridor was made as a buffer between both warring powers. The Russian Empire's border extended till the territory of Mir of Hunza( modern day Hunza, Gilgit-Baltistan). Interestingly, the Mir of Hunza had Tugdumbash Pamir valley under his administration, though he paid nominal tribute to the Chinese Suzereignty.
Simply speaking, Chinese DON'T have a border with Afghanistan at all!. Only Russian Empire(later Soviet Union) and Princely state of J&K under British India does. Go through the following attachment regarding the demarcation agreements.
Last edited:
Thanks a ton for finding this agreement. The salient points are reproduced below from the document. If we take back POJK and also dissolve Dutandline, the original borders of J&K will come into force which will give us direct access to Central Asia and their rich oil resources.
VII. EASTERN WAKHAN BOUNDARY COORDINATES The Wakhan Corridor river boundary from Eshkashem to Lake Sari-Qul (Victoria) results from Anglo - Russian diplomatic agreements of 1869 - 73. From Lake Sari-Qul to the Afghanistan - China - U.S.S.R. tripoint, the 218 kilometers of boundary, which follows the watershed of the Vakhanskiy Khrebet Range, was delimited by the Anglo - Russian Boundary Commission of 1895. The Commission demarcated the boundary at 12 points. The location of the boundary pillars, as noted by the Russian surveyor Zaliessky, was calculated east of the Russian observatory located at Pulkowa (30° 19" 38.55" east of the Royal Greenwich Observatory). The location was recalculated during the Indo - Russian triangulation of 1912 - 13 and corrected by the India Office of the Trigonometrical Survey in 1921. Geographic values for the 12 pillars noted on the Wakhan Corridor map are taken from the World Geodetic System (WGS-72) employed by the United States Defense Mapping Agency
Please don't put Pakistan and Afghanistan in one bracket. Afghanistan is our ally and Afghans will be the first to throw back the barbaric cult of Islam and embrace the Dharma of their forefathers.
Bro, we don't care about Afghanistan's religious affiliations. And you can't disagree to put Afghanistan and Pakistan in one bracket. They are indeed one geopolitical headache together. The Durand Line dividing Afg-Pak is not agreeable to Afghans. They even waged wars with Brits to nullify the treaty they signed after submission, only to be kicked by the British with double the force. The Pakistani stance is uti possidetis juris i.e the border between British India and Afghanistan is legal because Pak is one of the successive states of British India.
Once Pak dissolves, the Durand is erased and borders will go back to pre-Durand postions. And before Afghans can take a chunk of the remnants, a deal can be made to grab our pie in the North. Heck, we can even keep some border territory of Chitral (Yarkhun tehsil or union council whatever they call it) in exchange for erstwhile NFWP to Afg. The Indian border with Afg will become more than 107kms.
Last edited:
Hmm.. We are getting ahead of ourselves... For all this we would need Pakistan to junk Simla agreement, or provide us with a casus Belli due to a serious attack on India, on a scale justifying an Indian abrogation of Simla agreement... I don't see this happening...
Do you know why US is current superpower?
It is because of several reasons and I will quote some prominent ones.
1- Submissive and friendly neighborhood. There is no country in USA's neighborhood that can challenge it on any factor plus it has cordial relationship with all of them. ( Neglecting some rift with Mexico )
2- Powerful overseas allies e.g EU, Japan, Australia etc.
3- Aggressive promotion of its culture through media in whole world.
( I am not listing the economic, military or R&D edge because they doesn't matter in present context.)
So for becoming a superpower you need all three of them. Now let us have a look what is hindering us from achieving that.
1- Pakistan -- through terrorism and spreading radical ideology in our country and in neighbourhood.
2- Islam -- It is predominant ideology in our neighbour and also have a significant presence in our country thus preventing the spread of our culture.
That is why if we want to achieve those 3 listed objectives we must tackle these 2 menance. Hence we must care about the ideology of not only Afghanistan but of whole world and also must disintegrate Pakistan to make a subservent and friendly neighborhood. Only then we could be a superpower and can tackle China.
P:S - We also need to fight communists as these are promoted by our biggest rival and they have also formed and unholy alliance with Islam.
Good luck with that... Taking Islam out of a man, is very hard, only Spain succeeded.. and that too with the dreaded Spanish inquisition...
Small build up was happening.. ....... surprise was in store. They love 'surprises'
Couldn't agree more.
As for Clausewitz, he was specific for battlefield with some mention of diplomacy. For Kautilya, he was correct in using politics with military power as an ancillary. This, the latter aspect, is what is driving our policy.
Couldn't agree more.
As for Clausewitz, he was specific for battlefield with some mention of diplomacy. For Kautilya, he was correct in using politics with military power as an ancillary. This, the latter aspect, is what is driving our policy.
I agree. But what gives me hope is several accounts of people leaving Islam after realising it's barbaric nature.
Defeat must be complete in organs and mind. Varchashva=Complete domination to the point of thinking and any such thought of rebellion. Complete surrender mentally and physically is called Varchashva
Incorrect. For there is no pattern then. There is no established lines of communication (there is always a line/lines of communication which you can monitor) and there is no predictability for you to be able to make your own moves.
You have absolutely missed this one. What unites the Muslim Fundoos more cohesively than 'fevicol ka majboot jod'? It is hatred for kafir . Make no mistake, the level of brainwashing is so high that the average Indian, even a Muslim, is considered kafir by those who rule the so called roost in fundoo world.
Similarly, please recall I have mentioned how we stood back to allow situation to develop for the groups to fight by passive inactivity. But that was in an own country, where we can pour in thousands of troops, pumping money into the economy which is our own. Now extrapolate it into large swathes of territories which are not our own - human and economic resources will be going into a sinkhole.
Last edited:
The problem we were facing was ineffective employment of force by the State. In a legal nation state, the use or threat of violence should always be the sole prerogative of the State.
When the phrase 'use of force' is used, it is not limited merely to actual application but also to the coercive methods that the state has at its disposal, to ensure optimal force on the subject in order to enable/disable a certain characteristic.
While the so called champions of democracy will jump on this particular line of mine, what we have faced even up until yesterday, is the incomplete, hesitant use of all means at the State's disposal aka the Political will may be there, but the execution is tardy and poor.
And no. There is no black or white. We have a very large and significant population which is not interested in either side, merely is caught between the two. The pro-Pakistan segment is a joke in overall schema.... they are irrelevant. Hence, that is why I said we need to politically decide what we need to do.
Not at all. We have lot of instruments at our disposal. War is always the last resort. And trust me, the instruments we have right now, are far more effective to our overall aims and objectives.
They may not seem spectacular, but they have significant and far reaching effects. I have been mentioning since 2015, war is not what we will seek. If they want, we will happily give it to them, but we have a far better plan at work.
I agree with nearly all of your point but even if state use all its force effectively the problem will still remain just like that tree whose branches are cut but they will still grow in the future as long as sustainment is provided through roots. That is why we need to strike at the root i.e Pakistan.
Could you elaborate this point?
Agree, there is no point in taking over a radicalized population. Even if we seize the territory it will be impossible to safeguard it against infiltration from terrorists/suicide bombers. From an administrative point it will be a nightmare to maintain peace in the area.
- Status