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I will say simple answer to your questions
Chinese want to colonize Pakistani land through loans and defaults and soon will establish s naval base at Gwadar
In short 30-40billion dollars in exchange for Gwadar naval base , Pakistan will get no development or dollars at all.
Go read economic analysis of CPEC which has become next Kashmir of Pakistan lol done by a guy in PDF , he shows reality to you.
Btw Kaptaan opposed CPEC before and still reluctant to go forward
Members here feel that a deal breaker India and China is a possibility which I believe is impossible.i mean come on,we are hostile towards each other from a very long time.china is also hostile but here members feel that China can be friend.there are many problems.trust,history and war,dalai lama,Tibet,ladakh and most importantly,Chinese Ally pakistan.will China allow deal with India to destroy itself? Practically impossible.
 
It means the GoI has after 70 odd years shed their pussilanimity, something that was responsible for among other reasons - the Hindu growth rate, live & let live, appeasement Nehru style like the IWT & Indian silence on Tibet without safeguarding our borders, what's yours is yours and mine, mine philosophy & has finally decided to live up to the unanimously passed resolution in Parliament in the mid 90's that PoJK is a sovereign Indian territory under Pakistani occupation and that it's liberation is an article of faith with us.

Accordingly, all such steps needed to facilitate such an action is to be undertaken / is being undertaken in the realms of military, diplomacy, internal politics, finance, etc.

He makes that clear in an earlier post. he didn't answer the question. What happened specifically in 2015?
 
Members here feel that a deal breaker India and China is a possibility which I believe is impossible.i mean come on,we are hostile towards each other from a very long time.china is also hostile but here members feel that China can be friend.there are many problems.trust,history and war,dalai lama,Tibet,ladakh and most importantly,Chinese Ally pakistan.will China allow deal with India to destroy itself? Practically impossible.

You seem have more faith in China than Amrika, Army and Allah combined. What happened to Pakistan ??
 
He makes that clear in an earlier post. he didn't answer the question. What happened specifically in 2015?
My own reading is that all the steps Modi's undertaking now was conceived much earlier but was delayed so as to give peaceful resolution a chance be it within Kashmir or w.r.t Pakistan. Mufti Mohammed Saeed's death and the subsequent uneasy relationship with the PDP confirmed what Modi & the top brass of the BJP long suspected. That, the political leadership in Kashmir be it the NC or PDP was severely compromised, self seeking, taking undue advantage of being Delhi's trusted ppl in Kashmir, was interested only in preservation of the status quo and as long as Pakistan kept up its support for the insurgency in Kashmir was more an impediment than part of the solution.

Basically, he gave a long rope to both Pakistan and the local leadership of the Kashmiris viz the PDP & NC to hang themselves thereby pre empting and absolving himself of any blame which given his image as an ultra nationalist, strong man & hardliner, he would definitely have attracted had he initiated such steps in his first term. There's also the small matter of him not commanding the majority in the RS which remains the case till date but deft political floor management saw the government thru on crucial bills viz Triple Talaaq, Article 370 , etc.


I think this article does capture some of what I'm trying to establish in my post. Excellent article.


The Road to 'Naya Kashmir'
 
I am sorry.what is your point?

Mate, I believe Indian military & strategists would be more worried taking Pakistan on.

the thought of facing China would not scare anyone in India.
Not because they are not capable but because their capability has not been tested for decades. has it been 2 generations since China has been in a skirmish?

We, India & Pakistan have fought each other more in last 10 mins than China has fought in last 50 years.
We know the pains of war, we are accustomed to the body bags and our politicians have prepared public to pay the cost of war in life and materials.
China has not done this in a long time, The biggest threat they have faced in memory is a guy with a flower standing in front of a tank.

Once the shit hits, India and pakistan can take the heat and the bodies.
Let me ask you - do you think China can handle the bodies?
 
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Mate, I believe Indian military & strategists would be more worried taking Pakistan on.

the thought of facing China would not scare anyone in India.
Not because they are not capable but because their capability has not been tested for decades. has it been 2 generations since China has been in a skirmish?

We, India & Pakistan have fought each other more in last 10 mins than China has fought in last 50 years.
We know the pains of war, we are accustomed to the body bags and our politicians have prepared public to pay the cost of war in life and materials.
China has not done this in a long time, The biggest threat they have faced in memory is a guy with a flower standing in front of a tank.

Once the shit hits, India and pakistan can take the heat and the bodies.
Let me ask you - do you think China can handle the bodies?

In past,China supported us only diplomatically,no military support but with this huge amount already invested in Pakistan,China will never allow India to hijack entire cpec.do you remember that doklam standoff was started only for a stupid road? It means that they care about roads,about their projects.it is clear to me that they will help this time and chances of war are high.i am sure another bomb blast in India will trigger a limited war and it will be bad for region.
 
In past,China supported us only diplomatically,no military support but with this huge amount already invested in Pakistan,China will never allow India to hijack entire cpec.do you remember that doklam standoff was started only for a stupid road? It means that they care about roads,about their projects.it is clear to me that they will help this time and chances of war are high.i am sure another bomb blast in India will trigger a limited war and it will be bad for region.

Makes no difference to India whether Chinese care or not,
We will do what we must in lands we claim as our own.

It's chinese mistake to build projects in disputed lands.
They can cry and thrash all they want but it won't make a difference. They will for matter provide material support to pakistan in case of a war. Anything more like getting directly involved would be a surprise and may not necessarily be a bad thing from Indian POV ;)
 
Makes no difference to India whether Chinese care or not,
We will do what we must in lands we claim as our own.

It's chinese mistake to build projects in disputed lands.
They can cry and thrash all they want but it won't make a difference. They will for matter provide material support to pakistan in case of a war. Anything more like getting directly involved would be a surprise and may not necessarily be a bad thing from Indian POV ;)
I am sure about limited war.lets hope for the best.
 
And what happened to those people who used to call China enemy? Enemy suddenly becoming friend.afterall Hindi China Bhai Bhai.
The fact is India and China were never enemies. In our long history of 5000 years we always co-existed peacefully. We had thriving trade relations, Chinese pilgrims visited here regularly, there students used to come here for studies, we have given them Buddhism faith all in all China and India always had deep cultural, economical and academic relations. Only for a short period of time ( 1958-1986) we had some confrontation due to bad policies from both sides. Even today our relationship is of rivalry not of enemies. The difference between rivalry and being enemies is that rivalry could be positive and constructive for both sides. With advent of trade war Chinese have understood clearly that western world in general and USA in particular will never allow any other country to rise to their level hence they are the true enemies. That is why now China wants good relations with India for mutual growth plus given the fact that western market is increasingly getting closed for Chinese products they will never want another big market of 1.3 billion people to close for them too. Also for the full consumption of their manufacturerd goods they would also need that Indian people have enough purchasing power hence bigger economy of India hence growth of India. That is why they now want mutual growth for China and India for their rise.
Another important point is OBOR can never be successful without India joining it due to its strategic location in IOR and Chinese will also be wary of chances of sabotaging of CPEC by India if it's concerns are not addressed. You have correctly summed up that biggest reason of these problems is border dispute resulting in trust deficit. Hence to solve this issue Chinese are offering early settlement of border dispute and neutrality in case if India try to regain POK through some hard measures. That will end the trust deficit hence the chances of sabotaging of CPEC plus it will give immense benefit and credibility to OBOR due to India joining it.
Now with keeping all this in mind do you really think China will prefer a failed state of Pakistan that is just a liability for whole world and is also indulged in terror activites in China over the immense economic benefit which China is in dire need due to trade war?
I think you don't need to be Sherlock Holmes for getting the right answer.
 
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They get beaten in India? Where? So they requested India to route it through India? This is the funniest thing I have ever heard.

They did ask India to join CPEC. Their offer was actually to give us a cut of the money they're plundering from Pakistan by transferring some of the construction contracts to India. Any cntracts given to Indian companies won't need chinese workers, we can use our own. 'mil baant ke khayenge'
 
Guys end this fruitless debate , we shouldn't stoop to a level of a country whose GDP is mere 280 billion dollars and reducing , is a mercenary force for world powers to do their dirty work, has no standing in international fora , only achievement is no. 1 spot on UN terror list, is a useful pawn against others.
 
And what happened to those people who used to call China enemy? Enemy suddenly becoming friend.afterall Hindi China Bhai Bhai.
there no enemies or frnds but only permanent interests. Why dont you put yourself in china's shoes and ask yourself what you get by supporting pakistan?

why would china which oppresses muslims in xinjiang will agree to help pakistan on kashmir. A free kashmir or even a disturbed kashmir will inspire muslims in xinjiang do the same. china willl be happy that kashmir is under India and any change in status quo brings more danger to its control.

Forget china even most of the muslim states which are autocratic kingdoms will fear any islamic movement. It will have more backlash that they can handle. For the time being every one wants status quo other than pakistan.
 
Mate, I believe Indian military & strategists would be more worried taking Pakistan on.

the thought of facing China would not scare anyone in India.
Not because they are not capable but because their capability has not been tested for decades. has it been 2 generations since China has been in a skirmish?

We, India & Pakistan have fought each other more in last 10 mins than China has fought in last 50 years.
We know the pains of war, we are accustomed to the body bags and our politicians have prepared public to pay the cost of war in life and materials.
China has not done this in a long time, The biggest threat they have faced in memory is a guy with a flower standing in front of a tank.

Once the shit hits, India and pakistan can take the heat and the bodies.
Let me ask you - do you think China can handle the bodies?

China will easily accept 100 times more bodies than India or Pakistan. You forget that they are communists.
 
@vstol Jockey @Arsalan123 @Falcon @nair

Shekar Gupta in his latest video points out something that we all missed.

Imran Khan in his NYT Article clearly states that 'We Shot down one Indian Air Force plane and captured the pilot'. He has put that debate to rest. Pakistan's official position is that only one Indian jet was shot down and pilot captured. (This is devastating Windy Bhai can no longer pleasure himself to the idea of a Sukhoi falling from the sky :( )
 
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