Indian AESA Radar Developments
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This is just Virupaksha MK1. MKI's nose cone is big enough to house a radar with even more TRMs. As we indigenise and upgrade AL-31FP(to churn out more engine thrust cum electrical power) and enhance our VCM's cooling efficiency(currently limited at 10.5KW), the MK2 and MK3 versions of this radar(for later batches) would even house 2400 TRMs and even more.
Anyways, this version with 2208 TRM is still going to be a monster and if our AI enabled software/processor/algorithms are up-to-mark(which they will and some), then MKI UPG. with this radar would be our counter against PAF J-31 and PLAAF J-20. Yeah it's hard to conceive how a 4.5gen jet can counter against 5th gen, but thanks to advancements in technology and MUM-T, all bets are off
Virupaksha will be 2400 Radiating elements. got better pictures and better more analysis here
It will be the most powerful aesa radar in the world.
This is just Virupaksha MK1. MKI's nose cone is big enough to house a radar with even more TRMs. As we indigenise and upgrade AL-31FP(to churn out more engine thrust cum electrical power) and enhance our VCM's cooling efficiency(currently limited at 10.5KW), the MK2 and MK3 versions of this radar(for later batches) would even house 2400 TRMs and even more.
Anyways, this version with 2208 TRM is still going to be a monster and if our AI enabled software/processor/algorithms are up-to-mark(which they will and some), then MKI UPG. with this radar would be our counter against PAF J-31 and PLAAF J-20. Yeah it's hard to conceive how a 4.5gen jet can counter against 5th gen, but thanks to advancements in technology and MUM-T, all bets are off
Number of TRMs =/= power of radar.
It just means you have the potential of performing a lot more interleaved operations than the same radar but with fewer TRMs.
Also, having GaN does not automatically mean you can output more power - most of the time, when you upgrade from GaAs to GaN, it usually just means an increase in efficiency of output rather than amount of output i.e. to transmit 1 kW from a GaN radar you may only have to draw about 1.1 kW from the electrical system whereas a GaAs may have drawn 1.5-1.6 kW (arbitrary figures). The improvement is mainly thanks to reduction in efficiency/transmission lossess that occur due to increased heat/resistance in a GaAs setup as opposed to GaN which is much more efficient.
As a result of this efficiency increase, you might actually end up with say 10-20% more amount of power availble to tap.
But GaN has the ability to transmit say 5-6x more power than GaAs does not mean your output is gonna go up by 5-6x times. That still depends on how much electrical power your propulsion/conversion system is capable of outputting. On the Super-MKI we're not planning on an engine upgrade, just a marginally more efficient locally-built version of AL-31FP is all. The fact that we're even planning for a +2000TRM FCR means we've got some novel changes up our sleeve for the generators that draw electrical power out of the engines. But don't expect anything revolutionary like F35's output (upto 400 kVa, compared to F-15EX with a max of <100 kVa), or what's planned for GCAP/FCAS that are meant to have generators that can output 2000 kVa!
Engine design is the limiting factor here. You can only draw so much from a 4th gen design.
For the foreseeable future, F35 with upcoming APG-85 will pretty much smother anything in the sky. Nothing even comes close. Even the current system on F35 has a cooling capacity of 35 kW for the electronics and they're now testing one with a capacity of 80 kW (don't know how much of it is radar) compared to the 10.5 kW we're planning for Super-MKI.
All in all, the new radar will be a cool upgrade to have - I'm confident it'll make Super-MKI probably the best Flanker in the world hands down when it comes to LPI operation & BVR combat. Too bad that radar would be sitting on the jet with the largest RCS in IAF fleet so unlikely it'll be able to take full advantage of it against likes of J-20.
But what this means is that the FCR we'd be implementing on AMCA will be truly something that can turn the tide. Our FCR development efforts are moving at a rapid pace. We're iterating like crazy, can't imagine where the tech will be in 5 years.
You see, I'm the Oracle
Just kidding
.Very heartening to witness such progress. 2400 TRMs was what I always wanted/guesed in MKI. All my wishes/guesses regarding MKI UPG. from GaN radar with 2400 TRMs to Dual-Band IRST etc. are coming true.
Now just wishing for RCS reduction through advance-RAM/RAS/RAP and we've a propa J-20 buster in our hands.
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My Quote from 2 years back....... Pretty close.
YesWith current TRM count on Uttam radar ( 736 TRM ) ...if u scale it up for SU 30 with same packaging density....TRM count will be around 2246.
Better than J 16 numbers
How are you all so sure it is GaN based tr modules ? last time Astra MW said although they are ready with both , the config was not frozen back then. I think that initially it may be based on GaAs trms , then gradually replaced with GaN trms once that matures.
GaA has already been proven at this point, so we can assume that it's GaN since they will have 7 more years to iterate towards the final product.
@Gautam
Last I heard from the informed member is that some exotic technologies are under development..
All my wishes/guesses regarding MKI UPG. from GaN radar with 2400 TRMs to Dual-Band IRST etc. are coming true.
Let's hope they also replace the current metallic radome wiith a composite, frequency selective one, derived from AMCA tech. This will improve the radar's resistance to EW.
And while they're at it, hope they delete the pitot tube too. That will give the bird so much more oomph!
The Bars weighed some 600kg and could detect 5m2 targets out to 400km iirc. If the Virupaksha can provide comparable performance at about half the weight, we have a winner. Good thing that the Astra family will finally allow MKI pilots to exploit nearly the full range of the radar.
Alternators convert mechanical rotational power to electrical power. A higher RPM input to the alternator will result in a higher voltage output. The engine's main gear box provides the input to the alternator. A change in the gear ratio can substantially increase the RPM. This combined with an alternator of higher capacity should give us enough power.
Maybe that's what they plan to do. Develop a new gearbox for the AL-31FP. CVRDE has made gear boxes for the Kaveri & various turboshaft engines.
Agreed. We should get some performance gain from the indigenization effort of the AL-31FP. Still should have gone for the 117S.
AMCA will get the same 10.5kW VCM cooler for its radar. That radar will be lighter & more efficient, but probably not more powerful than the Virupaksha.
AMCA doesn't have any side mounted radars yet. So, the nose mounted radar needs to be steerable as well.
You mean ultra-wide band TSA antennas? Still under-development. Missile seekers will probably be the first to receive that.
Probably won't be seeing that in the Virupaksha radar for 3-4 years.
While we could get a composite radome, FSS radomes for the AMCA are still under structural strength verification stage. Production capacity for such radomes is still at lab scale. Unlikely FSS will make it to the MKI.
Not only AMCA, but even MK2 will have FSS radome. MKI UPG. is literally feeding off from all the tech developed for MK2(radar, IRST et al). That in itself shall reduce frontal RCS by several times. AESA radars have low sidelobes, thus their efficiency doesn't drop as badly under heavy EW/EA/ECM like MSA/PESA radars.
MKI UPG., MK2, TEDBF & AMCA all programs are inter-related and will most definitely feed-off each other's tech. That's a given.
With new radome, they may shift the speed sensors to the radome or some other place like Su-35S. Let's see!
Rafale's not so large RBE2 AESA with ~1000 TRMs and GaAs tech(with max power around 10KW supposedly), can almost match mighty BARS in range and nearly doubled the detection range of RBE2 PESA.
Just think what a ultra modern radar based on GaN tech with around 28.8KW(12W X 2400 TRMs) peak power can do
. We're not looking at just matching BARS range here but literally exceeding it by several times. The prospect is really tantalizing.
How it will get power? More time means less power per trm I believe. So it will not have monstrous range but will be LPI character.
Is there any information regarding what all the indigenization program entails? I think there's already some info out there that we can expect material changes wrt composition of alloys etc?
Wish there was something about the electrical system upgrades in public domain.
I was speaking from the standpoint of not expecting TRM counts to cross 2k so soon. Yea AMCA Mk1 will be operating with as much proven stuff as possible.
We're gonna have to wait till Mk2 with the next gen engine to unlock some truly revolutionary electronic capabilities.
you are assuming all those 2400 are perfect & will always work. I believe atleast some of them will be most likely be backup incase of node failures. Then they have to account for performance degradation over a period of time. As such at any point of time you are looking at the max 60-75% of them in use.
Since we know that MKI's GaN radar will have 10.5KW VCM cooling limit for now, so the only thing to guess is max power output. Even if we assume that per TRM has max power limit of 10W, then it shall mean radar will have peak power of 24KW. As per @"Flankerchan" 10.5KW cooling limit will translate into 26.5KW. So if we divide 26.5KW with 2400TRMs, we get around 11W power per TRM.
F-22 AN/APG-77(V1) has around 2000 TRMs with peak power around 20KW. It is/was the most powerful radar in the world and has got extraordinary detection/track range against even 1m^2 target. I've heard/read rumours of it detecting such a traget from anything between 250-400kms in a narrow cued search. In-comparison, Su-35S IRBIS can do that against a 3m^2 target in a cued(10° x 10°) search. IRBIS also has peak power of 20KW( though it's PESA).
MKI UPG.'s Radar even with 24KW peak power or with max 26.5KW peak power would be superior to both the above. Also factor in that it'll be based on far newer and bleeding edge architecture whilst using Gallium Nitride TRMs, the prospects are looking quite good for us
F-22 AN/APG-77(V1) has around 2000 TRMs with peak power around 20KW. It is/was the most powerful radar in the world and has got extraordinary detection/track range against even 1m^2 target. I've heard/read rumours of it detecting such a traget from anything between 250-400kms in a narrow cued search. In-comparison, Su-35S IRBIS can do that against a 3m^2 target in a cued(10° x 10°) search. IRBIS also has peak power of 20KW( though it's PESA).
MKI UPG.'s Radar even with 24KW peak power or with max 26.5KW peak power would be superior to both the above. Also factor in that it'll be based on far newer and bleeding edge architecture whilst using Gallium Nitride TRMs, the prospects are looking quite good for us