Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

The artillery which we have we are not using it properly and you want more for what? This is the only reason why I don't really have to post professionally. Because there is no point. 5 years back I stopped following procurement news and defence related updates.

You have one tejas which you could have deployed at forward bases as they require less fuel. But you didn't do. Whats the point of having ti in inventry then? And what hell are you testing in South India , did any one tell them that Pakistan lies on the south and not west of India?

You are hiding the capabilities of your weapons, okay, but do you yourself know what they are capable of unless until they get tested in real time scenarios?

You have bofors and light field gun which solves the purpose as it has been tested, you haven tested Tata SED at the front, nor ATAGS and you want to go for western stuff. Because its proven. Well then decommission Tejas and Arihant as well because both of them aren't proven.

I have been saying this that since ages that test in real time scenario or else don't ask DRDO to have high standards all the time and changing the requirements every year before giving clearance.

In coming 3 years, India really need to speed up it's procurement and should have atleast 700 more artillery units 52 cal. So what you have and can immediately build at home, perfect it.
Well artillery problem is finally solved right now. We have multiple solutions and players right now in the arty market which is amazing for us. The place for improvement right now should be in guided mrls . We need more 300mm systems and tactical missiles to cover the gap with the Chinese. The PLA rocket force is a game changer and we do need to cover up with them to have decent deterrence .
 
We have multiple solutions and players right now in the arty market which is amazing for us. The place for improvement right now should be in guided mrl

I was talking in regard of exporting the weapons. When Indian armed forces themselves have doubt about it what are we going to export? India can't solely rely on tax payers money to build weapons. I don't understand why such innovative thinking is not present in the policy makers.
The PLA rocket force is a game changer and we do need to cover up with them to have decent deterrence .

They have maverick rocket artillery which reach Siliguri
 
IIT Madras developing Ramjet-powered artillery shell for Indian Army to hit targets more than 60 kms away

Lt Gen PR Shankar (retd), whose team had exhibited the theoretical possibilities of the project at the recently concluded Defence Expo in Uttar Pradesh, said that his team is working on an artillery shell that is based on the next-gen Ramjet technology.

Written By: Sidharth MP
Edited By: Ritesh K Srivastava
Feb 21, 2020, 18:09 PM IST
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CHENNAI: The department of Aerospace Engineering at IIT Madras is working on developing a next-generation artillery shell that can be used by the Indian Army to hit far away targets with greater precision. Lt Gen PR Shankar, a (retd) Professor of Practice at IIT Madras, whose team had exhibited the theoretical possibilities of the project at the recently concluded Defense Expo in Uttar Pradesh, said that his team is working on an artillery shell that is based on the Ramjet technology.

“This will enable it to travel upto a range of 60 kms and above. Most shells that are in use travel around 30 kms or so. Extending the range of a shell would be highly useful in non-contact warfare scenario, like the situations on the Western border. Some of the current shells can travel upto 24 kms. We could extend the range unto 30 kms by traditional methods, but doubling it to 60 kms is going to be a game changer. Changing the gun would mean a tedious process, but instead we could change the ammunition and improve the performance,’’ he added.

When asked how compatible this new artillery shell would be with current artillery guns used by the Indian Army, Prof Shankar said, “Although we are developing a new kind of shell, we would not be building it from scratch. We are planning to redesign the existing shells using ramjet propulsion technology. The new shells are compatible with all the existing Artillery guns such as Bofors, Dhanush, Vajra and ATAGS. It is a fact that each gun has its own characteristics, but the shell we are developing is of a 155mm calibre. Hence, it would be usable on all Indian or foreign platforms that utilize the 155mm shell.’’

Further explaining how his method is different from the standard range-extension methods for Artillery shells, Prof Shankar said, “Traditionally, we would utilize a method called ‘base bleed’ where a chemical at the base of the shell burns, emits gas to fill the vacuum behind the shell to reduce the base drag force. Base bleed enables an increase of range by 10 to 20 percent. We are aiming to double the range by using ramjet propulsion technology through indigenously developed fuel and an air intake at the front, that helps the shell travel faster and thus enabling it to reach double the range.’’

When asked about the challenges pertaining to maintaining accuracy while aiming to extend a shell’s range, the retired Director General of Artillery said, “When a shell travels for around 30kms, the normal methods of correction are applicable. However when a shell travels 60kms, it would be affected by wind and weather conditions far more. So we would incorporate some kind of system to keep it on intended track. It is called a Precision Guided Kit. We will be developing the precision guided kits specially for such extended ranges.’’

Prof PR Shankar, who has been a Professor of Practice at IIT Madras’ Aerospace Engineering department and is actively involved in applied research, expressed hope that the Indian ordnance factories and facilities will be able to mass manufacture such shells for the Army’s requirements .

“Most of the shells that we need are made here. When we do resort to import it is only restricted to smart ammunitions and precision guided munitions (PGMs). Our ramjet based shell is like any other shell and we would be ensuring that OFB (Ordnance factory board) can manufacture it. Ability to manufacture it is there, but we are working on the design and the technology. That's where IIT Madras comes in, along with IIT Kanpur, Armament Research and development Establishment(ARDE) Pune and Research Centre Imarat (RCI) Hyderabad,’’ he said..

Replying to the question would there be a significant reduction in unit cost due to the indigenous manufacture, Prof PR Shankar added, “Primarily this technology is a first for artillery shells. Being a new product and new technology, they tend to be very costly. But it is certainly less expensive when compared to missiles and other weapons that have a range of over 60kms. There is also a scope for exporting this type of shell to friendly foreign countries.’’

Lt Gen P R Shankar is a retired Director General of Artillery. He has played a vital role in the modernization of Artillery through indigenization. He has deep knowledge, understanding and experience in successful defense planning and acquisition, spanning over a decade. Major 155mm Gun projects like the Dhanush, M777 ULH and K9 Vajra, Rocket and Missile projects related to Pinaka, Brahmos and Grad BM21, surveillance projects like Swati WLR and few ammunition projects came to fructification due to his relentless efforts. He has been a Professor of Practice at IIT Madras’ Aerospace Engineering department and is actively involved in applied research.

IIT Madras developing Ramjet-powered artillery shell for Indian Army to hit targets more than 60 kms away
 
IIT-M working on next-gen Ramjet-powered 155mm artillery shells for Indian Army

WION
Chennai, Tamil Nadu
Feb 21, 2020, 10.03 PM(IST)
Reported By: Sidharth MP

Story highlights : WION spoke to Lt Gen PR Shankar (retd), Professor of Practice at IIT Madras, whose team had exhibited the theoretical possibilities of the project at the recently concluded Defense Expo in Uttar Pradesh.

The department of aerospace engineering at IIT Madras is working on developing a next-generation artillery shell that can be used by the Indian Army to hit targets that are nearly twice as far the existing distances, with greater precision. While this is an existing technology, it has to be noted that no country has implemented in artillery shells.

WION spoke to Lt Gen PR Shankar (retd), Professor of Practice at IIT Madras, whose team had exhibited the theoretical possibilities of the project at the recently concluded Defense Expo in Uttar Pradesh. Lt Gen P R Shankar is a retired Director General of Artillery. He gave great impetus to the modernization of artillery through indigenization. He has deep knowledge, understanding and experience in successful defence planning and acquisition, spanning over a decade. Major 155mm Gun projects like the Dhanush, M777 ULH and K9 Vajra, rocket and missile projects related to Pinaka, Brahmos and Grad BM21, surveillance projects like Swati WLR and few ammunition projects came to fructification due to his relentless efforts. He has been a Professor of Practice at IIT Madras’ aerospace engineering department and is actively involved in applied research.

Here are the excerpts of an exclusive interview with him :

WION: What necessitates the development of such a new generation artillery shell, over and above the existing ammunition?

Prof Shankar: We are working on an artillery shell that is based on the ramjet technology, this will enable it to travel unto a range of 60kms and above. Most shells that are in use travel around 30kms or so. Extending the range of a shell would be highly useful in non-contact warfare scenario, like the situations on the western border. Some of the current shells can travel up to 24kms. We could extend the range unto 30kms by traditional methods, but doubling it to 60kms is going to be a game-changer. Changing the gun would mean a tedious process, instead, we could change the ammunition and improve the performance.

WION: How compatible is this artillery shell going to be with current artillery guns used by the Indian Army?

Prof Shankar: Although we are developing a new kind of shell, we would not be building it from scratch. We are planning to re-design the existing shells using ramjet propulsion technology. The new shells are compatible with all the existing artillery guns such as Bofors, Dhanush, Vajra and ATAGS. It is a fact that each gun has its own characteristics, but the shell we are developing is of a 155mm calibre. Hence, it would be usable on all Indian or foreign platforms that utilize the 155mm shell.

WION: How is your method different from the standard range-extension methods for artillery shells?

Prof Shankar: Traditionally, we would utilize a method called ‘base bleed’ where a chemical at the base of the shell burns emits gas to fill the vacuum behind the shell to reduce the base drag force. Base bleed enables an increase of range by 10 to 20 per cent. We are aiming to double the range by using ramjet propulsion technology through indigenously developed fuel and air intake at the front that helps the shell travel faster, thus enabling it to reach double the range.

WION: What are the challenges pertaining to maintaining accuracy when you aim to extend a shell’s range?

Prof Shankar: When a shell travels for around 30kms, the normal methods of correction are applicable. However, when a shell travels 60kms, it would be affected by wind and weather conditions far more. So, we would incorporate some kind of system to keep it on the intended track. It is called a Precision Guided Kit. We will be developing the precision-guided kits, especially for such extended ranges.

WION: Would Indian ordnance factories and facilities be able to mass manufacture such shells for the Army’s requirements?

Prof Shankar: Most of the shells that we need are made here. When we do resort to importing, it is only restricted to smart ammunitions and precision-guided munitions (PGMs). Our ramjet based shell is like any other shell and we would be ensuring that OFB (Ordnance factory board) can manufacture it. The ability to manufacture it is there, but we are working on design and technology. That's where IIT Madras comes in, along with IIT Kanpur, Armament Research and Development Establishment(ARDE) Pune and Research Centre Imarat (RCI) Hyderabad.

WION: Would there be a significant reduction in unit cost due to the indigenous manufacture?

Prof Shankar: Primarily this technology is a first for artillery shells. Being a new product and new technology, they tend to be very costly. But it is certainly less expensive when compared to missiles and other weapons that have a range of over 60kms. There is also scope for exporting this type of shell to friendly foreign countries.

WION: How long before we have a working prototype? Any major engineering challenges that we are faced with?

Prof Shankar: We expect to develop a working prototype within three to five years. Development of this shell would require a synergy between different types of engineering. We’ll have to combine expertise in Fundamental engineering of propulsion (solid propellants), structural design, a lot of design capability in geo-referencing and guidance with a lot of engineering capability and principles of rocket technology. In the case of a missile, we can design from scratch, but here we are taking an existing ramjet technology and fusing it with an existing shell to get something that doesn't exist. But if we manage to fit a ramjet into an artillery shell, it would pole vault us into the next generation.

WION: Funding and facilities are major components that drive defence research. How are we placed?

Prof Shankar: Lot of things have been proven. The design is ready and we are waiting for validation and prototyping. All the theory is ready and certain lab tests are done. We are waiting for funding as well because with new testing facilities we need to do more lab tests and start the prototype test. Test facilities that are to be set up can only be done with government support. Some of the facilities that we would need would be India’s first such facilities. There are a few, but they are with the missile development programme, and those are of a different kind. Once we go commercial, we need many such facilities to do fundamental testing for the long-term. For the ramjet to start working, it has to be taken to speeds of Mach 1 (speed of sound) so that we can test it. So we’d require a high-end wind tunnel that would be able to generate such speeds.

WION: Are there any other defence firms that are working on the same technology?

Prof Shankar: At the recently concluded DefExpo, we saw the Norwegian firm 'Nammo' display a shell of ramjet projectile. Their projectile and our projectile are technology-wise very different. While the theory is the same, the application is different. Ours is a simple system. We also know that various others are working on it as this is very futuristic defence technology.

IIT-M working on next-gen Ramjet-powered 155mm artillery shells for Indian Army
 
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Production of Dhanush seems to be very slow. Any reasons for this? Production of K9 Vajra is doing great.
DPSU's try to keep prolonging the production as long as possible sighting multiple delays and cost overruns. It's the same in terms of R&D orgs where most of the funds initially allocated are gobbled up leaving little to none for actual research
 
What happened to ATAGS? For how long are we going to run around with those to prototypes?
 
What happened to ATAGS? For how long are we going to run around with those to prototypes?
Since the production contract for ATAGS is given to Kalyani & Tata, I'm sure OFBs & GCFs are putting all efforts to halt or delay ATAGS while going ahead with Dhanush which they alone will manufacture for the next 30 years

Given how private firms have been able to meet and in most cases exceed expectations, DPSU's know they couldn't stand a chance if given a fair trail. The biggest advantage for PSU's is their huge workforce which could influence governments and decision makers
 
What happened to ATAGS? For how long are we going to run around with those to prototypes?

Multiple DPSUs doing their best to scuttle it with internal protests and dharnas from within MoD, while DRDO struggles to meet IA's demands for weight reduction.
 
Multiple DPSUs doing their best to scuttle it with internal protests and dharnas from within MoD, while DRDO struggles to meet IA's demands for weight reduction.
I thought ATAGS was more of a Tata SED and Kalyani Guns?
 
Since the production contract for ATAGS is given to Kalyani & Tata, I'm sure OFBs & GCFs are putting all efforts to halt or delay ATAGS while going ahead with Dhanush which they alone will manufacture for the next 30 years

Given how private firms have been able to meet and in most cases exceed expectations, DPSU's know they couldn't stand a chance if given a fair trail. The biggest advantage for PSU's is their huge workforce which could influence governments and decision makers
45 vs 52 cal, Projected members are different I thought.
 
DRDO is the designer.
45 vs 52 cal, Projected members are different I thought.

DRDO is the designer for both Dhanush & ATAGS but it's the OFBs' and Gun Carriage Factories who're pressurizing & protesting internally so that no contract goes to a private firm. Despite the difference in caliber, DPSUs' clearly know they'd eventually loose out to private firms given their efficiency and how quickly they could build production units from ground up and deliver the systems way before schedule which might lure MoD and the armed forces to give future production contracts to private Indian defence firms. The incompetent sloppy heads in DPSUs' have already protested fearing privatization and they're well aware they'd become irrelevant in the long run.
 
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DRDO is the designer for both Dhanush & ATAGS but it's the OFBs' and Gun Carriage Factories who're pressurizing & protesting internally so that no contract goes to a private firm. Despite the difference in caliber, DPSUs' clearly know they'd eventually loose out to private firms given their efficiency and how quickly they could build production units from ground up and deliver the systems way before schedule which might lure MoD and the armed forces to give future production contracts to private Indian defence firms. The incompetent sloppy heads in DPSUs' have already protested fearing privatization and they're well aware they'd become irrelevant in the long run.
Interesting, post a reference to the above info, would love to learn more.

Also, DRDO has not done any substantial design work for Dhanush gun, it literally is the FH77 Haubits with a longer barrel.
 
Its time to reissue MGS tender under ‘Buy Indian – IDDM’

OFB exports its newly developed 52-calibre barrels to Bofors

The Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), which is celebrating its 219th foundation day on Wednesday, has exported its newly developed 52-calibre barrel for 155 mm artillery guns to Bofors Test Center, its chairman Hari Mohan said.

He said that OFB has exported two 52-calibre barrels to Swedish arms manufacturer Bofors AB, from which it had imported 155 mm howitzer guns in the mid-80s.

"We have made a prototype which is truck-chassis mounted," Mohan told newspersons here.

In the last 14-15 years, the OFB has done "immense progress" in the field of high-calibre barrels, be it for tanks, medium and heavy artillery guns, and the barrel of Dhanush artillary gun has been indigenously developed, he said.

"Now we are embarking upon a barrel further increasing it to 52-calibre. The range of 155 mm Dhanush gun is 38 km. The Bofors gun barrel is 39-calibre, while that of Dhanush is 45-calibre," he said.

Mohan said the OFB has already designed and manufactured 52-calibre barrel, an important component of a full-fledged gun, and mounted one on a truck.

"We have exported these to Bofors and 52-calibre barrels have been taken by its test centre, which is using these for validation of 155 mm ammunitions being developed by global OEMs," he said.

More than 150 rounds of shells have been fired from these 52-calibre barrels, he said.

"The barrel is behaving better than expected and the Bofors Test Center is extremely happy," he said.

Apart from the barrel, Bofors is also taking the breech mechanism and muzzle brakes and all the three are being used, he said on Tuesday.

"We indigenously developed the technology for 155mm/52-calibre barrels and exported these to Bofors Test Center," OFB chairman said.

He said the OFB, which had initially handed over six Dhanush artillery guns to the Indian Army, will, in a few weeks, supply another six such guns.
 
OFB Dhanush 155/52 on truck , Kalyani Bharat 52 on truck and maybe DRDO ATAGS on truck. These are the Indian options. Although I think ATAGS will be too heavy , it will be between OFB and Kalyani only.