They thought they will surpass the IA's specs.
The RFI process for it began in 2010.
FLASH! Indian 155mm/52cal Towed Gun Competition Scrapped A Record Third Time, Re-Tender Signalled - Livefist
Horror for the Indian Army with a dark dollop of deja vu. Its eight-year effort to buy and build 1,580 (400 + 1,180) new towed 155mm/52cal howitzers has been scrapped, with fresh indications now that it will be re-tendered a record third time. The Indian Army issued a fresh RFI…
www.livefistdefence.com
Then DRDO decided to make ATAGS after the IA released the PSQR for the tender. So, no, ATAGS isn't an official army program. It's a typical case of the industry not delivering what the forces want, but delivering what they think the forces want.
IA's border infrastructure has been designed in such a way that China cannot bring in heavy equipment across to our side. So the IA has to work with margins that are more difficult to achieve. So bridges cannot handle ATAGS's weight, but can handle ATHOS's weight. The guns have to be decoupled from their GTVs and driven across on their own power, as long as the bridge holds. This is something to think about for those members who think IA should switch to using only MGS as well, the MGS cannot be taken to the battlefield in many places.
The alternative is to use inferior guns like Bofors and Dhanush, which the Chinese outgun with 52 cal. And during emergencies ATAGS units cannot support such Bofors/Dhanush units. So ATHOS is necessary to give us the advantage over the Chinese in areas ATAGS cannot be operated. Of course, bringing the ATAGS down to 16T would help, whereas 12-13T would be even better, which is ATHOS and Dhanush's weight.
People argue that ATAGS can then be used in the plains while ATHOS/Dhanush can be used in the mountains. But those same people forget that after we are done in the plains, those same guns will have to be transported to the mountains. And this argument already considers the fact that a non-ATAGS 52 cal gun is necessary for the mountains in the first place.
Today's ATAGS is such that only if the Chinese have defeated us in the mountains and are sieging Delhi can the gun be put to effective use.
Lesson for the industry: Always deliver what the IA wants.
Lesson for everyone else: IA is always right. Everybody else is wrong. If you don't like it, well, tough.
ATAGS as MGS would be brilliant. Since it has to be used in areas where the enemy can bring in superior firepower, the ATAGS's superior qualities will stand out even more compared to the towed environment.
Do u really think dalla lobby will allow it to happen.
Bullshit all the bridges can handle upto 70tonn weight.They thought they will surpass the IA's specs.
The RFI process for it began in 2010.
FLASH! Indian 155mm/52cal Towed Gun Competition Scrapped A Record Third Time, Re-Tender Signalled - Livefist
Horror for the Indian Army with a dark dollop of deja vu. Its eight-year effort to buy and build 1,580 (400 + 1,180) new towed 155mm/52cal howitzers has been scrapped, with fresh indications now that it will be re-tendered a record third time. The Indian Army issued a fresh RFI…
Then DRDO decided to make ATAGS after the IA released the PSQR for the tender. So, no, ATAGS isn't an official army program. It's a typical case of the industry not delivering what the forces want, but delivering what they think the forces want.
IA's border infrastructure has been designed in such a way that China cannot bring in heavy equipment across to our side. So the IA has to work with margins that are more difficult to achieve. So bridges cannot handle ATAGS's weight, but can handle ATHOS's weight. The guns have to be decoupled from their GTVs and driven across on their own power, as long as the bridge holds. This is something to think about for those members who think IA should switch to using only MGS as well, the MGS cannot be taken to the battlefield in many places.
The alternative is to use inferior guns like Bofors and Dhanush, which the Chinese outgun with 52 cal. And during emergencies ATAGS units cannot support such Bofors/Dhanush units. So ATHOS is necessary to give us the advantage over the Chinese in areas ATAGS cannot be operated. Of course, bringing the ATAGS down to 16T would help, whereas 12-13T would be even better, which is ATHOS and Dhanush's weight.
People argue that ATAGS can then be used in the plains while ATHOS/Dhanush can be used in the mountains. But those same people forget that after we are done in the plains, those same guns will have to be transported to the mountains. And this argument already considers the fact that a non-ATAGS 52 cal gun is necessary for the mountains in the first place.
Today's ATAGS is such that only if the Chinese have defeated us in the mountains and are sieging Delhi can the gun be put to effective use.
Lesson for the industry: Always deliver what the IA wants.
Lesson for everyone else: IA is always right. Everybody else is wrong. If you don't like it, well, tough.
The above is from PKS's Trishul blog . Please observe the Time Stamp . Over here we're lead to believe that the GoI / MoD in 2013 tasked DRDO funding them to build the ATAGS platform from scratch solely on the latter's SQR without inputs from the IA.
Assuming the above to be true ( which I don't ) why did the IA keep quiet ? I'd like to see citations to the effect that the MoD / DRDO bypassed the IA to frame it's own SQRs & the so called over achievement by Kalyani / Tatas is part of the same DRDO drawn up SQR & not the IA's .
This is regarding the mobility part of the ATAGS by Alpha Defence quoting Snehesh Alex Philip
ATAGS VS ATHOS : Understanding the rift from user and developers perspective - Everyone's in Dilemma | Alpha Defense
There is a fierce stand-off going on within India, i.e. on whether to procure Elbit's ATHOS 2052 or DRDO and TATA/Kalyani JV ATAGS.
alphadefense.in
Now compare what relatively informed sources have had to say about the performance of the ATAGS including every Goddamned dimension of it to what's being dished out here
All the above systems will be dragged for a decade in the name of trials and then tailor made RFI will be released for imports.
I am getting a feeling of a split between 155/39 and 155/52 between Kalyani MARG or something
and ATAGS.Let's wait.
RFIs, AoNs aren't anything but a reference in India. Don't take it seriously.
Wait for RFPs and CCS meetings.
IA entered the program after ATAGS's first prototypes did well, and the army thought they should give it support.
The so-called MoD approval is not for forces, it's for developing experimental technologies. It doesn't require forces support since DRDO is a separate entity, but within MoD and requires MoD approval.
It's retarded that I have to explain this.
The so-called MoD approval is not for forces, it's for developing experimental technologies. It doesn't require forces support since DRDO is a separate entity, but within MoD and requires MoD approval.
It's retarded that I have to explain this.
I think some member here wrote somebody here indulged in R&D - read & dump.
Asking for sources or references is like personal abuse.
Asking for sources or references is like personal abuse.
I am getting a feeling of a split between 155/39 and 155/52 between Kalyani MARG or something
The requirement is for 52 cal. Both Kalyani and Tata are participating with ATAGS.
But if the RFP limits weight, then it will become a problem. The options are between 18-20T guns on 6x6 or guns weighing up to 30-31T on 8x8.
Although, like Garuda 105, there is potential for a few regiments of MARG even if the ATAGS is chosen.
Anyway, I'm supporting ATAGS on this one.
And this is Simply Unprofessionally downright tragic.
The audacity to think that they already know what forces want.
These kinds of organization shouldn't be bailed out.
Some level of discussion go on & research labs are generally aware of armed forces needs. The other facet is can you pin one size fits all philosophy on the forces need when different top brass can & definitely has different view? They fight across varied geographies, land & weather conditions. What is good for a commander in desert might be looked down by another person in charge at high alt brigades.
MGS also cleared. time to start part 2 of complaints. 
this time less contenders? would love to know what cal it is for, could not find out yet.
this time less contenders? would love to know what cal it is for, could not find out yet.
Their intentions are good, but their execution sucks.
Take LCA. IAF wanted a simple jet with hydraulics and a radar that can track 2 and shoot at 1. When ADA went looking for digital FBW, Dassault offered analog FBW, which they rejected. We could have imported a radar too. Had the ADA been a bit more realistic, we would have seen the LCA operational in the early 2000s, more than enough to replace all Mig-21s, we had 500+ of those. An LCA Mk2 could have delivered digital FBW and a radar that can track 10 and attack 2 in parallel about 10 years ago.
Their execution sucks because they don't have competence yet. They need to first build competence before going big. They literally should have worked on a more capable ATHOS instead of ATAGS. Serial production would have started years ago.
Nothing new in it . DAC approved LCH in 2018 IIRC . Procurements are happening this yr. DAC procurements are always subject to funds availability. Wasn't additional funds granted to the Mk-2 this year ? The first flight to occur next Jan is now scheduled for Dec 2024 or Jan 2025 . Watch out for AMCA . It's already delayed. CDR due this month or next . Keep an eye on when are the funds released.