Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

_Anonymous_ said:
Assuming the above to be true ( which I don't ) why did the IA keep quiet ? I'd like to see citations to the effect that the MoD / DRDO bypassed the IA
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You will be amazed to know what our babus are capable of. For e.g, and I kid you not on this, A non pressurised NBC and personnel vehicle. This was for the NSG by the way and when the NSG learnt about this and brought it up, pat came the reply.....because jawans dont need air condition. The personnel from the NSG in that meeting were flummoxed on how to respond to this.

Now, when you know of things like this, this ATAGS requirements is nothing.
 
suryakiran said:
You will be amazed to know what our babus are capable of. For e.g, and I kid you not on this, A non pressurised NBC and personnel vehicle. This was for the NSG by the way and when the NSG learnt about this and brought it up, pat came the reply.....because jawans dont need air condition. The personnel from the NSG in that meeting were flummoxed on how to respond to this.

Now, when you know of things like this, this ATAGS requirements is nothing.
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After what's happened to the LCA & Arjun projects , I think not . It's one thing for the Babus to be bean counting ( besides NSG is under MHA , not MoD ) for a measly procurement here or there to show their importance quite another to mess around with a program of national importance subject to parliamentary oversight , CAG audits , trial by Media , the opposition , hell even the judiciary not to mention the GoI .

That too in 2012-13 . I refuse to believe the IA wasn't on board & that they had no knowledge whatsoever of the SQRs . Do you think had that been the case , would even senior ex IA personnel not have spoken out , at least now , a full decade after the program was green signaled ?!.

I mean come on man . It's one thing for storyteller to be running his faction out here ( he's already using retrospective vision to project Into the past why FBW was a mistake when it happened when IG herself personally appealed to Reagan for assistance in this project in 1984 , for the engine & training of personnel which was sealed by her successor RG . Air Marshal Philip Rajkumar who's written such a wonderful book on the entire project including the back story & it's history up until 2004 IIRC will commit suicide reading this wisdom by 20:20 faction ) & quite another for a veteran forumer like you who's been around & probably knows what only a handful here know in terms of insider information to be buying into this pure unadulterated BS .

Do you see anyone in the media including the likes of Praveen Sawhney or Ajai Shukla or even the Chandigarh lobby as represented chiefly by Lt Gen Panag ever even hint at this being a DRDO only Fanboy project ? None of them are favourably disposed to the establishment as it exists today. Yet they haven't uttered a word . Not even a dark hint , nothing.

I mean what gives ???
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
After what's happened to the LCA & Arjun projects , I think not . It's one thing for the Babus to be bean counting ( besides NSG is under MHA , not MoD ) for a measly procurement here or there to show their importance quite another to mess around with a program of national importance subject to parliamentary oversight , CAG audits , trial by Media , the opposition , hell even the judiciary not to mention the GoI .

That too in 2012-13 . I refuse to believe the IA wasn't on board & that they had no knowledge whatsoever of the SQRs . Do you think had that been the case , would even senior ex IA personnel not have spoken out , at least now , a full decade after the program was green signaled ?!.

I mean come on man . It's one thing for storyteller to be running his faction out here & quite another for a veteran forumer like you who's been around & probably knows what only a handful here know in terms of insider information to be buying into this pure unadulterated BS .

Do you see anyone in the media including the likes of Praveen Sawhney or Ajai Shukla or even the Chandigarh lobby as represented chiefly by Lt Gen Panag ever even hint at this being a DRDO only Fanboy project ? None of them are favourably disposed to the establishment as it exists today. Yet they haven't uttered a word . Not even a dark hint , nothing.

I mean what gives ???
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Am not saying, this is what happened with the ATAGS. I have no knowledge of the same.

But, at the same time, I would not put it beyond the babus in the MoD. Especially the pre-Parikar era.
 
suryakiran said:
Am not saying, this is what happened with the ATAGS. I have no knowledge of the same.

But, at the same time, I would not put it beyond the babus in the MoD.
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I don't see what the babu's in MoD would possibly have against the IA being involved in drafting of the SQRs ? I mean on what grounds could they object & why would the IA keep quiet about it unless the latter wanted to sabotage the entire matter. It doesn't look like that to me .

P.S - have edited the previous post to add new information. Perhaps you'd like to go thru it .
 
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_Anonymous_ said:
I don't see what the babu's in MoD would possibly have against the IA being involved in drafting of the SQRs ? I mean on what grounds could they object & why would the IA keep quiet about it unless the latter wanted to sabotage the entire matter. It doesn't look like that to me .

P.S - have edited the previous post to add new information. Perhaps you'd like to go thru it .
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You are assuming malicious intent. I am simply considering, stupidity and more probably...'i know what is right' syndrome.
 
How do I explain to children that DRDO can start projects on their own, without any sort of input or acceptance from forces?

Upon success, the forces can be presented with it.

Right now, DRDO is working on the army's PSQR that was not supplied to the DRDO. The PSQR was generated for the towed gun tender which ATHOS won. DRDO is simply trying to match/exceed that. After the LSP process is done, the IA will create a GSQR, and then it will become an official army program.
 
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So according to storyteller here , the IA wasn't involved in the program at all . All this while , DRDO was running a little science project with Tata Power SED & BF with MoD financing this joy ride & the IA watching from the sidelines mighty tickled by the whole scene.

All the SQRs were generated by DRDO on it's own without any consultation with IA & the moment DRDO hit pay dirt , IA immediately hopped on to the bandwagon & the PSQRs were drafted .

I'm guessing this is how ADE works. Sort of explains why Rustom / Tapas are such exemplary success stories.
 
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suryakiran said:
You are assuming malicious intent. I am simply considering, stupidity and more probably...'i know what is right' syndrome.
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I got what you're saying . All I'm saying is if that may have been the way things were in the past ( though DRDO undertaking projects without the knowledge or without any consultation whatsoever with the end users / services is a bit hard to digest ) , I don't think that's how they would be functioning this century.

A simple analogy would be the R&D of a company coming out with a prototype without any consultation ( formal or otherwise ) whatsoever with the sales , marketing , customer service team & then suddenly springing a surprise on them asking them to evaluate the product. How many organisations function that way & how long do they expect to survive in the market assuming that's how they function ?
 
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It's been 2022 since 2019. Only emergency procurements are being signed. And it's a good thing. Too many gaping holes being plugged with the least amount of bureaucracy.

The only other thing that happened in 2022 is a concrete roadmap for the next 25 years. MRFA, MRCBF, MKI MLU and AMCA requirements were finalised this year, not even counting finalisation of LCA Mk2. IN decided to go for a second Vikrant. It's very likely that the long lead procurement of both AMCA and SSN has already begun. So our next 10-25 years were decided in 2022. Not in 2021, not in 2023, but 2022. So nothing much happened after 2018, but suddenly everything important for the next 20-25 years started moving in 2022. Who would have guessed?

IA's RFI for non-ATAGS option is also a reflection of the changing times that began in 2022. The world order changed with the war in Ukraine, and both our enemies are going through sh!t due to acts of God. Pak got buried under floods due to the monsoon that began in June end. And Covid's come full circle in China. This definitely wasn't planned, but 2022 is a special year for them too.

On the artillery front, Dhanush cleared pre-delivery trials this year, paving the way for active deployment. And also, the IA cancelled their requirement for a wheeled gun this year and are gonna order more K9s instead. ATAGS-MGS was unveiled this year.

All in all, been a very good 2022.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
I am getting a feeling of a split between 155/39 and 155/52 between Kalyani MARG or something 😅 and ATAGS.
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The rumour mill says this could happen.

Do you think the 300 MGS deal is for the 39 cal class or 52 cal? A 300-gun deal for 39 cal definitely makes sense. 15 regiments is basically 1 regiment for each corps. Or 2 regiments each for the China-facing corps and 1 facing Pak in the mountains. Or it could be for Garudas.
 
randomradio said:
The rumour mill says this could happen.

Do you think the 300 MGS deal is for the 39 cal class or 52 cal? A 300-gun deal for 39 cal definitely makes sense. 15 regiments is basically 1 regiment for each corps. Or 2 regiments each for the China-facing corps and 1 facing Pak in the mountains. Or it could be for Garudas.
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Yes, similar views of some of my friends. This 300 could be mountains one in excess to 814 units.
Might be 155/39 or 105 Garuda
 
It's been 2022 from 1st Jan 2022 this yr & will end on 31st December this year . The rest is all storytelling . Like for instance the reaction in # 1211 is an expression of wonderment at the number of RFI's / RFP's being floated , unlike the explanation offered in #1213.

The concrete roadmap was unveiled in MP's tenure . That was in 2016 when the Rafale G2G was signed & the MMRCA 1.0 declared dead after being comatose since 2012.

MRFA RFI should've been issued immediately . Further 36 Rafales should've been procured by now . Neither happened then nor till date . In fact IAF which was fast asleep since 2016 finally woke up in Dec 2021 promising to release the RFI in a year though what exactly was novel about the tender documents is till date a big mystery since the usual suspects are participating once again with the addition of the F-15 . Plus no trials . It's since been pushed to 2023 not 2022 as was originally planned .

MRCBF decision expected by end 2022 hasn't yet materialized. It'd happen in 2023. MKI MLU pending since 2015-16 with the decision to go in for local upgradation / modernization taken some time back except it was made public this year . In the event the final upgraded variant will only debut in 2026. Once more 2022 fail. AMCA CDR not yet frozen nor funds alloted. Mk-2 was initially due for taxi trials in July Aug 2022 with first flight to follow in exactly a year's time . Now it's shifted to 2023-24 & 2024-25 respectively. Additional Funds allocated this yr for Mk-2 pending since God knows when ? Probably the only take away of 2022.

No official decision taken yet on IAC -2 . Likely will be taken in 2023. It's very likely that no such long lead procurements of either program has occured or that it may have occurred last yr or the yr before last or even next yr . There's nothing to say either way . Nothing was decided in 2021 or 2020 or even in 2022 as the evidence in the public domain & as documented here proves. Who would've guessed that 2022 would be like any other yr after everything under the sun was promised & since nothing spectacular materialized it's back to one's favourite occupation cum hobby once more - story telling. Attempting to Spin things off on an extremely unhelpful surface.

IA's attempts at a non ATAGS tender is it's second in the past 7-8 yrs & it's still an RFI. The only good news is the ATAGS cleared the PSQRs.

The world order is in the process of being changed & it's a saga which is a continuation of the events of 1990 namely the collapse of the ex SU . What's happened this year was foretold by the events of 2014. China's been in trouble since end 2019 when the Wuhan virus first made it's appearance. What's happening now is only the continuation of that story . Ditto for Pakistan whose tryst with 9 lives began in 1947 . Since then it's been dying & resurrected every other decade if not every decade.

If 2019 onwards was bad for them , every successive yr has proven worse with 2022 being the worst till date in recent memory & going by the trends 2023 will be worse than 2022.

The rest of the achievements listed are the kind we see every yr . Why would 2022 be an exception ? In fact the CAG report castigating DRDO should prove why 2022 is some sort of annus horribilis ( no sweetie , it's not what you think it is . @Innominate )

Sadly the scoreline still reads -

PKS - 7-8/10
Resident ST - 0/10.

Just one prediction true would've made that a cent percent strike rate . Unfortunately it wasn't to be . One can still try for 2025 , now that a lot of decisions will happen next yr but since one didn't quite project 2023 in the same light , one can't now suddenly jump on to the 2023 bandwagon . Henceforth , one could / should just declare - 2025 is the new 2022.
 
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