Indian Army Artillery Systems : News and Updates

But again, we are allowing HSL to tie up with a country supporting Pakistan on Kashmir issue and also never have themselves made a vessel bigger than 17,500 tons for a vessel of 45,000 tons size.

GRSE built INS Aditya, they are better equipped to give technical support to HSL.

Anything can happen thanks to idiots in PMO and MoD.
 
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Come on, people. Use common sense, life gets much easier if you do that.

Tata/L&T made a prototype each with 55% indigenisation, followed by an additional one with 75%. This is the version that's been tested and these 4 guns are the only ones that exist today. Any number beyond 75% is just a roadmap. And this roadmap has to come via LSP and the IA's GSQR. So, based on the GSQR, they can then make new prototype guns with significantly more than 75% indigenisation.

Meaning, 95% or 100% don't exist. They are simply on paper. And once they do exist, they have to be tested all over again. Post which they can begin induction.

If the LSP deal goes ahead next year, or even the year after, it will take until 2026 to have them all. During this time they should receive a GSQR, followed by new prototypes and a new round of testing, which could take us to 2027 or 2028 or even 2029 before an order can be placed, followed by another year or two before serial deliveries begin. So that's 2030+.

Common sense, people, common sense.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
But again, we are allowing HSL to tie up with a country supporting Pakistan on Kashmir issue and also never have themselves made a vessel bigger than 17,500 tons for a vessel of 45,000 tons size.

GRSE built INS Aditya, they are better equipped to give technical support to HSL.

Anything can happen thanks to idiots in PMO and MoD.
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The FSS deal began in 2014, when Turkey was a little less turdy. The deal is important enough that the IN cannot restart the process just 'cause Turkey started causing problems post 2016. The alternatives were Germany and Russia.
 
randomradio said:
Come on, people. Use common sense, life gets much easier if you do that.

Tata/L&T made a prototype each with 55% indigenisation, followed by an additional one with 75%. This is the version that's been tested and these 4 guns are the only ones that exist today. Any number beyond 75% is just a roadmap. And this roadmap has to come via LSP and the IA's GSQR. So, based on the GSQR, they can then make new prototype guns with significantly more than 75% indigenisation.

Meaning, 95% or 100% don't exist. They are simply on paper. And once they do exist, they have to be tested all over again. Post which they can begin induction.

If the LSP deal goes ahead next year, or even the year after, it will take until 2026 to have them all. During this time they should receive a GSQR, followed by new prototypes and a new round of testing, which could take us to 2027 or 2028 or even 2029 before an order can be placed, followed by another year or two before serial deliveries begin. So that's 2030+.

Common sense, people, common sense.
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Even if we go for imports, will we do it quickly?

It will take as much time as the ATAGS to mature.

So far we have not seen any big deal..
Biggest was Rafale.

It's all going to be piece meal.. And leasing.

We cannot predict anything what ll happen.

Smaller the deal, higher the chances we ll get.

Bigger the deal, more likely delays, cancellation, not likely to be cutting edge.
 
Ankit Kumar said:
I understand your concern, but ATHOS isn't coming. Remember the 10 crore or something similar figure was for 1st 400 units which were to be directly imported (no local assembly meant no GST).

The lowest cost 52 cal potential is Dhanush 52 actually if produced correctly. The 2nd cheapest is 155/52 towed unit (a variant of the ULH system by Kalyani). And then there's bharat 52.

There is no way to build a system in India while paying a share to elbit per unit at a cheaper cost than what idiots at OFB are doing now.

And why only Elbit? Mahindra and Mahindra has a tieup with BAE and they have actually invested in buying up foreign barrel manufacturing techniques and equipment. If say elbit can get to MoD with a few agents, think what M&M can do. And why forget the Trajan ? Tata's have worked with them.

If ATHOS is given an entry through 1 partner, so will be the French and Americans. They are actually the least powerful politically to wrestle a deal.
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The RFI opens up the competition to all artillery guns worldwide. ATHOS is like the MRFA's Rafale, it's the cheapest while also meets requirements. It was designed specifically for the Indian market. The Trajan costs as much as ATAGS. Others failed trials, so they could repeat that performance again.
 
randomradio said:
The FSS deal began in 2014, when Turkey was a little less turdy. The deal is important enough that the IN cannot restart the process just 'cause Turkey started causing problems post 2016. The alternatives were Germany and Russia.
Click to expand...
Tell me a ship which Turkey's bidding consortium has built which is bigger than 17000 tons.

Can Pakistan Aeronautical Complex provide ToT for a 5th gen fighter? They can claim, but can they?
 
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Sathya said:
Even if we go for imports, will we do it quickly?

It will take as much time as the ATAGS to mature.

So far we have not seen any big deal..
Biggest was Rafale.

It's all going to be piece meal.. And leasing.

We cannot predict anything what ll happen.

Smaller the deal, higher the chances we ll get.

Bigger the deal, more likely delays, cancellation, not likely to be cutting edge.
Click to expand...

Tenders have been overhauled for faster turnaround, so new tenders will happen bureaucratically faster from our end.

For now, the tender is just an RFI. It's probably a backup option in case ATAGS doesn't meet requirements. We also do not know the numbers the IA is looking for either. It could be a few hundred, which means ATAGS will still remain the primary option, or the entire lot, which means ATAGS goes the Arjun way.

It's been 10 years since the previous tender, so the new one will bring in a lot of new technologies which the ATAGS may not have right now, presumably. ATAGS was designed as per a PSQR set back in 2010-12. Any new PSQR will reflect the times.
 
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randomradio said:
Tenders have been overhauled for faster turnaround, so new tenders will happen bureaucratically faster from our end.

For now, the tender is just an RFI. It's probably a backup option in case ATAGS doesn't meet requirements. We also do not know the numbers the IA is looking for either. It could be a few hundred, which means ATAGS will still remain the primary option, or the entire lot, which means ATAGS goes the Arjun way.

It's been 10 years since the previous tender, so the new one will bring in a lot of new technologies which the ATAGS may not have right now, presumably. ATAGS was designed as per a PSQR set back in 2010-12. Any new PSQR will reflect the times.
Click to expand...

Don't know if artillery guns have advanced much?
What new technologies can we expect?

Guided rounds we can fire from ATAGS also right?
 
Ankit Kumar said:
Tell me a ship which Turkey's bidding consortium has built which is bigger than 17000 tons.

Can Pakistan Aeronautical Complex provide ToT for a 5th gen fighter? They can claim, but can they?
Click to expand...

If you're saying there were irregularities in the tender, then that would be false. Just 'cause the Turks haven't built a bigger ship doesn't mean they don't have the technology to build such a ship. They have already demonstrated by building the 27000T Anadolu.

TCG_Anadolu.png
 
randomradio said:
If you're saying there were irregularities in the tender, then that would be false. Just 'cause the Turks haven't built a bigger ship doesn't mean they don't have the technology to build such a ship. They have already demonstrated by building the 27000T Anadolu.

TCG_Anadolu.png
Click to expand...
Read my comment. The bidding consortium.

Go and read about the consortium and the unit assembling this ship.
 
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Facing development problems for a weapon that was designed into an aircraft from the ground up is not the same as replacing components entirely. The gun on LCA was always designed into it from the start, but if you change the radar on the LCA, the aircraft will have to be recertified again. More examples of not using common sense.

Any further major indigenisation of the ATAGS will require to be shown on either a new prototype or progressively on the LSPs, until they finally make the last production grade gun in final batch of the LSPs. It literally cannot be compared to what already exists. Man, it's not hard to use grey cells, just one is enough.
 
Sathya said:
Don't know if artillery guns have advanced much?
What new technologies can we expect?

Guided rounds we can fire from ATAGS also right?
Click to expand...

A lot of it will involve new electronics and connectivity. Unlike aircraft, artillery guns are simpler to upgrade. Any new technology can be incorporated into the ATAGS over time, like an Mk1A or Mk2 model, which could come up during the LSP period. So this RFI is a technology-discovery exercise.

Even if someone's developed new tech, we actually have to go find out if there's something new out there. And this is done via RFIs.

It's difficult to say what sort of new tech exists, but at least we know new longer ranged barrels have come in, like the 58 cal barrel for M777 that expands range to 70Km. There could be new tech for recoil, maybe increased stealth and better camo techniques.
 
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Ankit Kumar said:
Read my comment. The bidding consortium.

Go and read about the consortium and the unit assembling this ship.
Click to expand...

The shipyard that built Anadolu is part of the bidding consortium. I believe pretty much the entire Turkish shipbuilding industry is involved in the IN's FSS via TIAS.
 
Did you know that Indian explosive company have 20%+ market share in Turkey? Several other examples there too I think. Lots of raw material supplied there.
 
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