Indian Political Discussion

[Infowarrior]

By Urban Naxals, I was referring to people like Jignesh Mevani, Sheila Rashid, Kanhiya Kumar, Kejriwal, Parshant Bhushan, Kavita Krishnan et al.. We also have one resident Urban Naxal on this forum - Bonobhashi.

My Post was specific to UP & nothing to do with Naxals. I don't know how I shall respond to you?

Templates used Karte ho - Naxal mentioned it post, I should post this...

I knew who you meant by urban naxals. The so called Urban naxals are using the right strategy, their cause is just. Social justice. I agree with bonobashi 95% of the time.

Only corporate media's hold on public perception and disinformation strategies stand in their way. They remain within the law, use social media and other media like wire.

They just need to steer clear of some political beefs like Kashmir, criticizing Indian army, general religious sentiment of Hindus etc.

 

[Parul]

I knew who you meant by urban naxals. The so called Urban naxals are using the right strategy, their cause is just. Social justice. I agree with bonobashi 95% of the time.

Only corporate media's hold on public perception and disinformation strategies stand in their way. They remain within the law, use social media and other media like wire.

They just need to steer clear of some political beefs like Kashmir, criticizing Indian army, general religious sentiment of Hindus etc.

Then why you didn't Prove me wrong by sharing evidence of 'Yogi Government wiping out Muslims OBC, SC & ST in UP'? However, you changed the Topic because you can't back your Propaganda backed with FACTS!

Urban Naxals right strategy is to support 'Bharat Tere Tukde Hongay Inshallah, Kashmir Mange Azadi, Bastar Mange Azadi et al. gangs'. Yakub Memon lovers helps people like Bonobhashi keep their Collective conscience alive.

You support Urban Naxals & agree 95% with him. It's sums up everything and exposes your(s) Propaganda.

 

[Bharath]

If an alternative religious or spiritual path or community offers a better life and position in society, it is merit.

A. S. Dileep Kumar found some kind of spiritual merit in Islamic philosophy(his opinion), so he rewarded Islam with his allegiance and became A R Rehman.

so you are proselytizing here and saying Islam has more Merit than other religions. and you talk about secularism!
for the first time I am seeing the word "merit" to mean one religion is more meritorious than other.

 

[vstol Jockey]

But this is true, many Dalits are indeed suffering unspeakable cruelty, are employed in menial jobs including cleaning of human excreta and are segregated by their communities.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2017 Timeline of Atrocities Against Dalits: UP, Rajasthan Top The List

A Crime Against Dalits every 15 minutes in India

NEW DELHI: A crime is committed against Dalits every 15 minutes in India. And six Dalit women are raped every day, according to official statistics that register a 66% hike in atrocities in the past ten years 2007-2017. The situation has worsened, with a further spike in anti-Dalit violence, over the past four years.

The timeline for 2017 till date is a matter of shame for democratic India that has still not come to terms with its repressive caste system:

May 5- Mass attack on Dalits in Shabbipur village, Saharanpur. 1 person killed and 15 people injured in clashes between Dalits and upper caste Thakurs.

May 7- Dalit groom allegedly beaten up for "daring" to take a decorated car to his wedding venue, in Chhatarpur District, Madhya Pradesh. The groom and 6 others of the wedding party were thrashed.

May 2017- People belonging to Scheduled Castes in Uttar Pradesh's Kushinagar District given soap and shampoo by the local administration to clean themselves ahead of a visit by CM Yogi Adityanath.

July 3 2017- 31 Dalit activists who had called a press conference in Lucknow to talk about past atrocities against Dalits arrested- as they had planned to march later towards Uttar Pradesh Chief Minister Yogi Adityanath's house - which then did not have permission for.

July- Maharashtra's Marathwada district- Dalits denied dignity even in death - no place given for cremation and burial grounds- on account of failure of the state government.

July 2 – A report by National Commision for Scheduled Castes reported that atrocities against Dalits have been on the rise in Kerala. 883 cases of atrocities between June 2016 and April 2017

September 25 - Piyush Parmar, 25 years old, allegedly thrashed by the members of the Rajput community - Gujarat

September 29- Krunal Magheria, 30 years old, thrashed for sporting a moustache in a Gujarat village.

September 30- 5 Dalits assaulted in a Vijaya Dashami procession in Belur Taluk, Karnataka

October 1- 21 year old Dalit man allegedly beaten to death by a group of men belonging to the upper caste Patel community for attending a garba event

October 3- 17 year old Dighant Magheria attacked by two bike borne men in a Gujarat village who slashed his back with a blade.


Broad trends:

Over the last ten years (2007-2017), there has been a 66% growth in crimes against Dalits. Further, data from the National Crime Record Bureau (NCRB) shows that the rape of Dalit women has doubled in the last 10 years.

(Source: India Exclusion Report 2013-14)

In 2006 the total number of crimes against dalits was 27,070, which became 33,719 in 2011. While in the period 2008 to 2012, the figures were mostly static -in the last five years (2013-2017) nearly 33,659 average number of cases of crime against dalits were registered.

Among last 10 years, this number is highest in 2014, which is nearly 47,064 followed by 2015 and 2013. According to the data, in every 15 minutes one crime against dalit takes place in India. Clearly such a statistic indicates that the change in government has not contributed to a decline in Dalit atrocities. Furthermore, the figures are on the rise.

(Source: National Crime Records Bureau 2014)

Crimes against Dalits rise by 19% in 2014 on top of a 17% rise in 2013. To illustrate further, in 2014 - 744 Dalits murdered and in 2013- 676 Dalits were murdered. Rates of crimes against Dalits have surpassed the national average in as many as 10 states in 2013 and 2014.

Data from the National Crime Record Bureau (NCRB) shows that the rape of Dalit women has doubled in the last 10 years. According to the NCRB data from 2015, every day, six dalit women are raped in India. This is starkly different from 2006 when nearly three rapes of dalit women were registered a day. This shows that in last 10 years rape of dalit women doubled.

Further, it is important to remember that these figures should not be taken at face value. The number of cases registered is but a fraction of actual number of crimes that take place. In many instances, these crimes do not get reported due to non cooperative police and judicial machinery, shame and social stigma, and the fear of retaliation by the upper castes.

(Source: The Hindu)

In terms of atrocities against Dalits, Uttar Pradesh is in the lead, accounting for 17% of the crimes against the 20% of India’s Dalit population that it houses. In Rajasthan, more than half of the total crimes in the state have a Dalit victim. Bihar too has abysmal record, where 2 out of every 5 crimes committed are targeted towards Dalits.

The numbers reveal a mindset that is deeply entrenched in the caste system; a mindset revels in a sense of superiority arbitrarily granted at birth. They reveal an India that remains deeply regressive in is thinking and capable of unthinkable acts of barbarism and savagery. To these figures and to the countless other unreported stories of torture and oppression faced by the Dalits on a regular basis, it is difficult to reconcile the image of India as a progressive nation that sends satellites to space and engineers bullet trains. So much for unity in diversity.

(Cover Photograph: Dalits being beaten for skinning cow carcass in Una, Gujarat last year)
2017 Timeline of Atrocities Against Dalits: UP, Rajasthan Top The List -- link

----------------------------------------------------------------

5 BJP ruled states have highest crime rates against Dalits, reveals NCRB data

• IndiaToday.in
• New Delhi
• November 30, 2017
• UPDATED 14:40 IST
• Follow
• Email Author
• READ LATER

HIGHLIGHTS

• Madhya Pradesh recorded highest crime rate against Dalits.
• UP recorded highest number of crime against Dalits.
• Gujarat has seen rise in crime against Dalits during 2014-16.

Related

• Gujarat: Dalit man thrashed for attending garba event

Dalits protesting in Gujarat. (Photo: PTI file)

The latest data released by the National Crime Records Bureau (NCRB) may give the Opposition a shot in arm for the Gujarat Assembly election. The latest data for 2014-16 reveals that the BJP ruled states recorded highest crime rates against scheduled castes.

The NCRB data, released today says that the five states that recorded the highest crime rate in the category of "crime/atrocities against scheduled castes" during 2014-16 were all ruled by the BJP directly or in alliance with other parties.

Madhya Pradesh occupies the top position in crime against scheduled castes in terms of crime rate, which is defined by the incidence of crime recorded per one lakh population. Madhya Pradesh registered 3,294 incidents of crime against scheduled castes in 2014 followed by 3,546 in 2015 and 4,922 last year.

Madhya Pradesh reported 12.1 per cent of total number of crimes against scheduled castes registered in the country last year. Madhya Pradesh is followed by Rajasthan, which recorded 12.6 per cent of total number of crimes recorded against scheduled castes in the country in 2016.

OTHER BJP STATES

Rajasthan recorded 6,735 incidents of crime against scheduled castes in 2014, which declined to 5,911 in 2015 and 5,136 in 2016. Goa holds third position in terms of crime rate against scheduled castes. However, in terms of numbers, Goa recorded only 13 such cases each in 2014 and 2015 while the number of crime against scheduled castes declined to 11 last year.

With 5,701 incidents of crime reported against scheduled castes last year, Bihar stood fourth in the table. Bihar's share in the all India figure for crime against scheduled caste was 14 per cent for 2016. The

BJP is in alliance with the JD-U in Bihar, which had voted for the grand alliance (including RJD and Congress) in 2015. But, early this year, Nitish Kumar walked out of the grand alliance and stitched an alliance with the BJP to form government.

WILL NCRB DATA IMPACT GUJARAT ELECTION?

Election-bound Gujarat was at the fifth rank in terms of crime rate against scheduled castes. Gujarat has seen an increase in the number of incidents of crime against scheduled castes since 2014.

The NCRB data shows that Gujarat registered 1,094 incidents of crime against scheduled castes which increased to 1,322 in 2016. In 2015, Gujarat recorded a minor dip in the number when 1,010 incidents of crime against scheduled castes were registered in the state.

During this period, Gujarat has seen several agitations over rising crime against Dalits in the state. The crime against Dalits took political turn in 2015 when a family was attacked by cow vigilantes at Una.

The issue of crime against Dalits is one of the major poll issues for Gujarat Assembly election. Dalit leaders including Jignesh Mevani and the Congress have been raising the issue of crime against scheduled castes in the state for past couple of years.

According to the NCRB data, atrocities or crime against scheduled castes increased by 5.5 per cent in 2016 over 2015. A total of 40,801 cases of crime against scheduled castes were registered in the country in 2015 compared to 38,670 cases in 2015.

With 10,426 incidents, Uttar Pradesh reported the highest number of cases of atrocities against scheduled castes accounting for 25.6 per cent followed by Bihar with 14 per cent and Rajasthan with 12.6 per cent in 2016.

In 2016, the rate of crime against scheduled castes of total cognisable crimes in Madhya Pradesh was 43.4 per cent followed by 42 per cent in Rajasthan, 36.7 per cent in Goa, 34.4 per cent in Bihar and 32.5 per cent in Gujarat. The all-India crime rate against scheduled castes was 20.6 per cent last year.

5 BJP ruled states have highest crime rates against Dalits, reveals NCRB data -- link

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The real problem is some people only speak about merit criteria for government jobs. If Arab countries have oil money and Christians countries with (GDP per capita 35000 dollars, their money and development is merit), this is also merit. If an alternative religious or spiritual path or community offers a better life and position in society, it is merit.

The real problem is warped or narrow definition of merit, to fit a particular narrative.

Meaning of merit
the quality of being particularly good or worthy, especially so as to deserve praise or reward.

For example A. S. Dileep Kumar found some kind of spiritual merit in Islamic philosophy(his opinion), so he rewarded Islam with his allegiance and became A R Rehman.

And when some people can't compete with them on merit, they resort to

AR Rahman is a perfect case wherein he shud not be a muslim. Please read our laws. The children of a person who converts to another religion or a child converted to another religion is not legal. A R Rahman was born a Hindu and was converted to islam by her mother. As per law it is illegal conversion.

 

[vstol Jockey]

Any married person who converts to another religion does not automatically convert his spouse and children to that religion as the consent of that spouse and children to convert has to be obtained and in case of minor children, the will of the parents is not automatically binding.
AR Rahman was converted to Islam by his mother when he was an infant.

 

[vsdoc]

Any married person who converts to another religion does not automatically convert his spouse and children to that religion as the consent of that spouse and children to convert has to be obtained and in case of minor children, the will of the parents is not automatically binding.
AR Rahman was converted to Islam by his mother when he was an infant.

You make an interesting point which I'd like to explore further. Legally.

This conversion from one faith to another.

What is the legal basis for it in the eyes of the state?

Is there any documentation?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Infowarrior]

Then why you didn't Prove me wrong by sharing evidence of 'Yogi Government wiping out Muslims OBC, SC & ST in UP'? However, you changed the Topic because you can't back your Propaganda backed with FACTS!

Urban Naxals right strategy is to support 'Bharat Tere Tukde Hongay Inshallah, Kashmir Mange Azadi, Bastar Mange Azadi et al. gangs'. Yakub Memon lovers helps people like Bonobhashi keep their Collective conscience alive.

You support Urban Naxals & agree 95% with him. It's sums up everything and exposes your(s) Propaganda.

I don't agree with Bharat Tere Tukde Hongay Inshallah, Kashmir Mange Azadi, Bastar Mange Azadi et al. gangs'. Yakub Memon lovers etc.
That's the 5% that I don't agree on, but mass media deliberately picks this 5% to defame them.

But I agree with them on social justice and income in-equality.

Facts, 97% of police encounter deaths recently, belong to OBC(escepcially Yadavs), SC (Jatavs) and Muslims. Based on these facts, I have a hunch that these are deliberate judicial killings.

 

[sid4587]

Staged encounters and extrajudicial killings in the garb of encounters is bad but genuine encounters are not initiated by Police but by criminals. check the number of policemen who have been injured or killed. was Batla house extra judicial killing or an encounter? You forgot to understand my sarcasm when I called it ethnic cleansing.
How do you establish rule of law in any country? By enforcing law and arresting the criminals.

the data(facts) are enough for every sane person here, it's useless to discuss logic with the people according to whom we should first make out list of criminals on caste basis and make sure our encounter happens on caste basis, like if police have killed continuously 2-3 SC/ST/OBC next encounter should be general caste and if at all any SC/ST/OBC got in way, police should say namaste and go back.

 

[vstol Jockey]

You make an interesting point which I'd like to explore further. Legally.

This conversion from one faith to another.

What is the legal basis for it in the eyes of the state?

Is there any documentation?

Cheers, Doc

I read a newspaper report of one such judgements passed by SC very recently wherein the husband converted and the rest of the members refused to follow him and also refused to change their caste.
A person can change his religion and faith but not the caste to which he belongs, as caste has linkage to birth; SC
SC refers to Constitution Bench plea over conversion of Parsi woman

 

[sid4587]

I don't agree with Bharat Tere Tukde Hongay Inshallah, Kashmir Mange Azadi, Bastar Mange Azadi et al. gangs'. Yakub Memon lovers etc.
That's the 5% that I don't agree on, but mass media deliberately picks this 5% to defame them.

But I agree with them on social justice and income in-equality.

Facts, 97% of police encounter deaths recently, belong to OBC(escepcially Yadavs), SC (Jatavs) and Muslims. Based on these facts, I have a hunch that these are deliberate judicial killings.

Approx 3% muslims are in Indian Army so according to your logic muslims deliberately dont join army bcz they dont want to die serving nation'....hope everyone knows how many % are there in total in whole india, whereas for example take sikhs, there are 19 dedicated batallions on sikhs and one can always wonder why there are so many sikhs in indian Army......

 

[Parul]

I don't agree with Bharat Tere Tukde Hongay Inshallah, Kashmir Mange Azadi, Bastar Mange Azadi et al. gangs'. Yakub Memon lovers etc.
That's the 5% that I don't agree on, but mass media deliberately picks this 5% to defame them.

But I agree with them on social justice and income in-equality.

Facts, 97% of police encounter deaths recently, belong to OBC(escepcially Yadavs), SC (Jatavs) and Muslims. Based on these facts, I have a hunch that these are deliberate judicial killings.

This for the third time you ignored to back what you are saying with FACTS.

Further, did you start any threads or single Post's on Judicial Killing of Generals, Dalits, OBC's, SC or ST under non BJP States? Or, your hunch for Judicial Killings is only like Urban Naxals?

 

[sid4587]

I don't agree with Bharat Tere Tukde Hongay Inshallah, Kashmir Mange Azadi, Bastar Mange Azadi et al. gangs'. Yakub Memon lovers etc.
That's the 5% that I don't agree on, but mass media deliberately picks this 5% to defame them.

But I agree with them on social justice and income in-equality.

Facts, 97% of police encounter deaths recently, belong to OBC(escepcially Yadavs), SC (Jatavs) and Muslims. Based on these facts, I have a hunch that these are deliberate judicial killings.

Yeah these the silence of other 95% is very dangerous as it is a silent agreement, that's what lead to ISIS when whole middle east was silent and some uncle SAM had to take care of their religion mess..... we do not want any other country to take care of our mess, hoping situation won't come to that point.

 

[vsdoc]

I read a newspaper report of one such judgements passed by SC very recently wherein the husband converted and the rest of the members refused to follow him and also refused to change their caste.
A person can change his religion and faith but not the caste to which he belongs, as caste has linkage to birth; SC
SC refers to Constitution Bench plea over conversion of Parsi woman

Yes I am aware of the case of the Parsi woman and the judgment of the Mumbai High Court (I think) on the same. Regarding her right to enter the Tower of Silence for the funeral rites of her parents.

Caste most definitely. Because there is documentation. Rigorous ... as it has direct ramifications on a plethora of reservations across the gamut.

But religious conversion?

I don't get that. Happy to be educated on the same.

Cheers, Doc

 

[vstol Jockey]

Yes I am aware of the case of the Parsi woman and the judgment of the Mumbai High Court (I think) on the same. Regarding her right to enter the Tower of Silence for the funeral rites of her parents.

Caste most definitely. Because there is documentation. Rigorous ... as it has direct ramifications on a plethora of reservations across the gamut.

But religious conversion?

I don't get that. Happy to be educated on the same.

Cheers, Doc

Please read the previous cases which have been quoted in those judgements and you will get the correct picture. The law regarding Majors is very clear. Every one has to convert individually. Infact in one of the divorce judgements it was upheld that a spouse conversion to another religion is a valid reason for divorce. In case of minors it has been defined that it is not automatic. Just the way caste is by birth, so is religion and conversion can happen to a religion only when a person acquires the age of consent.

 

[vsdoc]

Please read the previous cases which have been quoted in those judgements and you will get the correct picture.

I'm not contesting what your saying.

I'm just trying to figure out what documentation at a government level there is where my religion is mentioned.

Can you think of any?

Cheers, Doc

 

[sid4587]

Meanwhile in UP many SC/ST/OBC/MUSLIMS nakal mafias are caught by police DELIBERATELY, all the general nakal mafia were left with one warning, it seems they will be given two more warning during whole exams.....hurray general got reservation atleast in one sector.

 

[vsdoc]

Approx 3% muslims are in Indian Army so according to your logic muslims deliberately dont join army bcz they dont want to die serving nation'....hope everyone knows how many % are there in total in whole india, whereas for example take sikhs, there are 19 dedicated batallions on sikhs and one can always wonder why there are so many sikhs in indian Army......

Could you provide a source for that 3% statistic please.

The army has firmly rejected at every step a communal census of its troops.

Always.

Cheers, Doc

 

[nair]

Why those two threads been merged with this one? Discussion from them will Continue here & this thread will Die.

We are working on the back ground..... Will ensure this doesnt die......

 

[nair]

I See 5-6 Sticky Threads from different states for Political Discussion! What's the reason behind this?

have opened a new thread.....

 

[vstol Jockey]

I See 5-6 Sticky Threads from different states for Political Discussion! What's the reason behind this?

let them be there. But they must be confined in a separate section as has been done now. let those who want to speak on political affairs confine themselves in that corner rather than ruin every thread.