Indian Political Discussion

@vsdoc @Infowarrior @BlackOpsIndia

I am following this entire conversation for national election in 2019 and here is my understanding: For better or for the worse, leaving BJP and Modi, there is no party or leadership in the country which wants rather is even willing to talk about economic progress. This is the main and the biggest determinant of anything and everything about a nation of size like India. All justice, freedom etc etc etc become meaningless if you simply do not have enough economic means to support a population of scale of India which is still growing and still quite young. It does not matter if inequality becomes even ten folds higher. At the current economic size, even if you distribute all the economic output equally to all Indians, you will be left with a very anemic living condition. What I guess most people have trouble in understanding is the scale part of the problem. Pickup the biggest riot or most brutal unrest you have seen in your life. I can bet it will be bounded by 10 million people. An economic depression will impact 100s of million for 10s of years to come. These are two completely different scales.

I can see there are few ways in which scenario can play out:

1. BJP emerges with clear mandate: 2/3rd or not but clear mandate. Not NDA but BJP. You will have 5 more years in which there is a chance that economic progress will accelerate.

2. You get a regional party coalition -- third front of sorts -- with support of Congress. It is HD Devegowda once again all over. Nothing will ever get done. Major political instability. There is no chance in the hell any economic reform will be undertaken. Essentially these folks do not have any chops to even think about economic progress, rather they do not have any inclination to work on any strategic thought. Their entire time and energy will be spent to maximize grabbing lucrative cabinet ministries with reshuffling every 2-3 months. The issue with these folks is that they have never been exposed to the reality of running a political system for 1.3 billion people and honestly, they don't even want to attempt that. Most of them have not seen India beyond their own state.

3. You get Congress with support of regional parties: Marginally better than above, may be.

4. You get NDA government. It will be Atal Bihari type government with all effort to keep the coalition going for 5 years. I guess no different than 3.

5. Congress in clear majority. Unlikely. If it happens, it will be Rajiv Gandhi 2.0 all over. We will have an incompetent and insecure leader in the centre being driven by month's or week's Rasputin.

You have described the situation in great detail and very precisely

However the larger question for me is that the YOUNG leadership looks
silly and clueless to me

I am talking about the Rahuls ;Akhilesh ; Kanimozi ; Kejriwals ; Supriya sule ( NCP)

The older generation will be set aside in Five years but the Upcoming leadership
does not look promising
 
Lets assume that ownership of India goes to Hindus because of massive polarization done by BJP. And it goes in the most violent fashion with death of 100 million Muslims and Christians and Sikhs.

This is nothing but making up the MOST Bizarre and spewing out false and fake allegations
and rumours
 
The foundation of our nationhood is under attack.
Heh! People think ideologies etc etc etc are foundations of the nation. IMHO, a nation or any community which cannot channelize power of its individuals into useful goods and services will fail at such a fundamental level that there will be no space left for any ideology. Remember USSR? They had everything but they eff'ed up their economy to the point of no return while fighting an ideological war with USA.
 
No it is not.

My friend @Arvind and I are discussing peacocks on a thread about democracy and nationhood.

This is about nationhood. For us living here.

The foundation of our nationhood is under attack.

And you are not the first Indian living in the US who thinks its all about the economy either.

Cheers, Doc

I see merit in what @Shajida Khan is saying. The majority of trouble makers and the one they can drag with them on road are jobless junkies. They have no better job to do, perhaps they have food on their plate merely because of trouble making.

The educated extremist is confined to internet vomiting hate, with no guts to leave his AC office and get on roads.
 
Lets assume that ownership of India goes to Hindus because of massive polarization done by BJP. And it goes in the most violent fashion with death of 100 million Muslims and Christians and Sikhs. You are still left with a nation of 1.1 billion. Now suppose you retain the secular make up of the nation but you get 10 years of 3.4 % growth. You have messed up life of 400-500 million Indians for a living hell.

Clueless.

Our nation will be shaken by another Godhra from the BJP. Signaling its end for the foreseeable future as a political entity.

You are talking of a 100 million.

And the fight for ownership is between Hindus who believe that India belongs to Hindus versus Indians (majority Hindus) who believe that India belongs to Indians.

Please understand that the smallest tribe in India (be it the Jarawas or the Parsis) will refuse to live in a nation where they do not have equal ownership.

This is hardly going to be clean or simple or a done deal as the sangh thinks.

Cheers, Doc
 
I am talking about the Rahuls ;Akhilesh ; Kanimozi ; Kejriwals ; Supriya sule ( NCP)
Its not as much a question of youth but a question of intent. None of these folks intend to operate at a pan India level. Rahul is a reluctant leader, Akhilesh etc cannot think beyond a caste or group of castes or a state. None can lead national agenda.
 
Heh! People think ideologies etc etc etc are foundations of the nation. IMHO, a nation or any community which cannot channelize power of its individuals into useful goods and services will fail at such a fundamental level that there will be no space left for any ideology. Remember USSR? They had everything but they eff'ed up their economy to the point of no return while fighting an ideological war with USA.

NOT ideology.

FOUNDATION of our peoplehood.

Our nationhood.

Do try to understand .... though I do appreciate your political knowledge.

Cheers, Doc
 
Well, even if in this nightmare scenario, the outcome is better than what all the other alternatives present to us, then do we have a debate left?

The situation you have " described " will ONLY happen when the world runs out of resources

and there is No government and authority left that is each man to himself

As long as a Government is functioning ; no such thing will happen

If there is a rail accident or a major road accident involving 20 deaths it becomes a a Big news

and you are so casually throwing around millions of lives as if they are potatoes
 
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It was absurd.

We took many steps back as a nation.

Lost vital time and space to the competition.

And then we were attacked ....

Cheers, Doc

Good ; now also recall what was the issue in 1999 elections ; It was Political stability

because three elections in Three years had brought us down in a big way

There fore even if political instability comes back again ; it will be short lived
 
FOUNDATION of our peoplehood.
At the core, any person needs food, shelter, freedom from pain, may be education and then may be chance to put his abilities to some good use. This is the bare minimum. Anything else is actually a luxury. If we do not increase our capacity to provide these, luxuries cannot even fit. The scale and size of our country is such that even a massacare of 10 million will not deny it its nationhood.

Remember China? They due to their stupidities killed 60 million in civil wars and cultural revolution. But even with all his follies Mao kept few things intact. Education, agriculture and perhaps rudimentary medical facilities. An incremental improvement in leadership jump-started their nation into a super-power now.
 
Lets be honest, who dont?

I have heard the guy, quite smart and very spontaneous. Have guts to go against his father. Educated and understand the dynamics. We must have alternate man, always.

Same reason I like him.

Plus he is a Puneri jamaii.

Cheers, Doc
 
At the core, any person needs food, shelter, freedom from pain, may be education and then may be chance to put his abilities to some good use. This is the bare minimum. Anything else is actually a luxury. If we do not increase our capacity to provide these, luxuries cannot even fit. The scale and size of our country is such that even a massacare of 10 million will not deny it its nationhood.

Remember China? They due to their stupidities killed 60 million in cultural revolution. But even with all his follies Mao kept few things intact. Education, agriculture and perhaps rudimentary medical facilities. An incremental improvement in leadership jump-started their nation into a super-power now.

Come on ; No such thing is going to happen in Today's era
 
At the core, any person needs food, shelter, freedom from pain, may be education and then may be chance to put his abilities to some good use. This is the bare minimum. Anything else is actually a luxury. If we do not increase our capacity to provide these, luxuries cannot even fit. The scale and size of our country is such that even a massacare of 10 million will not deny it its nationhood.

Remember China? They due to their stupidities killed 60 million in cultural revolution. But even with all his follies Mao kept few things intact. Education, agriculture and perhaps rudimentary medical facilities. An incremental improvement in leadership jump-started their nation into a super-power now.

We are not China.

We were never China.

I doubt we will ever be China.

The two civilizations and people are extremely divergent.

Cheers, Doc
 
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